• NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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    28 days ago

    50 days is borderline useless when you factor in logistics. At best you fundamentally can’t have a standing inventory.

    Still, a step in the right direction

    • I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      It biodegrades in soil in 50 days. Don’t store it in damp, biologically active media and you should be good.

      I’ve had a dried flower arrangement in my house for about a year. It’s fine. Slap that baby in the compost tumbler and it will be soil within a few weeks.

      • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        28 days ago

        So don’t store liquid in it? Not viable for beverage containers.

        And unless you are going to use a sturdier plastic to surround it (which actually is a very good model because it keeps the harder to recycle stuff out of homes)… tell me you never worked inventory without telling me you never worked inventory?

        • testfactor@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          What percentage of single use plastic is used for storing liquids? I would imagine it’s a minority, with things like plastic bags making up the majority.

          Plus very acidic liquids like soda may not be bio-active enough to cause this to break down, depending on what the process is.

          • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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            28 days ago

            What percentage of single use plastic is used for storing liquids? I would imagine it’s a minority, with things like plastic bags making up the majority.

            Plastic bottles are the most common type of container for fluids and make up a huge portion of plastic waste. Drinks, cooking oil and vinegar, cosmetics, personal hygiene products, cleaning products, motor oil, paints, medical products… and that’s just the common consumer stuff. Plastic bags are a big part too but liquid bottles are certainly not a minority.

            Plus very acidic liquids like soda may not be bio-active enough to cause this to break down, depending on what the process is.

            You also have to be concerned about the outside of the container. Will it be washed as part of the production/handling process? Will sweat and bacteria from human hands cause it to start breaking down? It will be packed in a box for shipping, then unpacked at a store, then picked up and looked at by who knows how many people before being purchased, then it has to stay in one piece until the product it contains is used up. A bottle of toilet cleaner or shampoo or laundry detergent might be handled hundreds of times, and its lifespan from production to final disposal might be a year or more.

          • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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            28 days ago

            Which have massive implications on weight and structural packaging. A plastic soda bottle is light and sturdy. A glass soda bottle is heavy and shatters. Also recycling of glass is not entirely straightforward in a lot of regions.

            The world doesn’t (over) rely on polymers just because everyone wants to have a summer home in Alberta. They have materials properties that make them ridiculously good for storage and packaging. They just have very serious implications on the environment.

            Reducing those environmental implications is VERY good and a lot of work is going into it. But doing so to the point it removes their beneficial properties… is kind of missing the point.

          • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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            28 days ago

            There’s several big tradeoffs there.

            Glass is heavy compared to plastic, and also bulkier. A truck full of product in glass containers will carry substantially less product volume than if it were plastic containers. In order to distribute the equivalent amount of product, more trucks will have to make more trips. When you scale this up to national distribution you’re talking about hundreds more trucks on the road, thousands more trips per year, which is going to have an environmental impact.

            Glass is fragile compared to plastic. Some accounting is already done for product loss due to breakage during distribution, but plastic containers are fairly durable (part of the problem of course). If you switch to glass the loss percentage goes up, which again means you have to make more trips to distribute the same amount of product, so compounding the environmental impact.

    • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
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      28 days ago

      No, you’re understanding this wrong. They don’t mean it will degrade on the shelf or in transit, only in soil. If true, this is the shit.

      Additionally, the bamboo plastic can be degraded in soil within 50 days or closed-loop recycled (where objects are recycled and used to remake similar products) whilst retaining 90% of its original strength, demonstrating its potential as a sustainable but high-performing alternative to traditional plastic materials, according to details released by researchers.

      • Sibbo@sopuli.xyz
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        28 days ago

        Yeah, but soil is basically moisture and bacteria. Same as food, unless it is freeze-dried or so. Still, as alternative to paper straws or one-time cups it could be great.

          • porksnort@slrpnk.net
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            28 days ago

            Exactly and single use plastics are the largest problem we face. Medical and food handling would be much more difficult and expensive without single use plastics, so a good-enough plastic say for gloves that get changed really often would be a huge win.

    • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      I was looking at a crystal clear, water tight, biodegradable, algae-based plastic the other day. The problem is, well, that it is biodegradable. You can’t package food with it because it will grow mold and then lose its properties.

      Possibly for situations where it stays dry it could be a great plastic, but that pretty much excludes all shipping and food use.

      • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        28 days ago

        Yeah. I can’t actually think of an application for plastic where this makes sense, but there probably is one.

        But this really feels like a proof of concept paper that hit mainstream news. But those tend to actually have very useful applications in niche corners (that are only sometimes weapons…) so cool.

        • testfactor@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          Plastic grocery bags Plastic single use gloves Plastic straws Packaging for electronics Packaging for dry goods like beans/pasta Packaging for short shelf life items like fruit/bread

          Honestly, there’s a huge number of things we use plastic for that don’t require it to sit in contact with bacteria/liquid for weeks at a time. I’d be willing to bet it’s the majority even.

          • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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            28 days ago

            Like I said, it really depends upon what exactly triggers “biodegrading”. Because those plastic gloves might be in a box in a warehouse for months prior to getting to the hospital… and then another month in the supply closet.

            That is WHY so many products have like five layers of packaging. Because maybe someone left the door open on a rainy day and some of those cardboard boxes got soggy. The plastic wrapping your pallet keeps it out and it is mostly the warehouse workers who suffer (and they’re barely people in the eyes of the law…).

            • higgsboson@piefed.social
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              28 days ago

              is mostly the warehouse workers who suffer (and they’re barely people in the eyes of the law…).

              As someone who works with warehouse material handlers (aka forklift operator with PPE) on a daily basis, I am pretty sure they are barely people in their own eyes too.

        • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          Single use plastics intended for quick use and then disposal mostly?

          I’m thinking something like a medical use where a plastic thing is used exactly once and then thrown away that same day. Maybe a syringe or whatever.

          • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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            28 days ago

            Medical supplies actually probably are a really good application for that. Traditional polymers to wrap the palette, cardboard to wrap the disposables, and then bamboo plastic to wrap the disposables themselves. Since those actually have fairly strict storage requirements once they get off the truck.

            Just a question of if that is cost effective to have multiple types of plastic at the factory.

            • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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              28 days ago

              Most biodegradable polymers are water-permeable (water intrusion is how bacteria get inside the material to break it down). Anything water-permeable is not appropriate for medical use, even as a wrapper for something else, because you can’t guarantee that the thing inside is sterile.

    • unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
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      28 days ago

      Except for literally anything dry or single use. Packaging for screws, toys, electronics, medical material and also actual items themselves like straws, single use plates/cups/forks, etc.

      Completely useless amiright

    • PrivateNoob@sopuli.xyz
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      28 days ago

      Not even for plastic cups like at fast food chains? Those are in constant demand and get thrown out instantly after use

      • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        28 days ago

        Demand varies and there are a LOT of warehouses on the way from the cup factory to the starbucks. Cups can EASILY spend a month or three just sitting in a damp cardboard box at a distribution center. Which is “fine” because they have at least one or two more layers of outer packaging around the stack of venti iced coffee cups.

    • markovs_gun@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      You’re right but because this is a politicized issue, you seem like you’re on the wrong side and therefore are wrong and evil. There is a lot of good work being done on biodegradables but 50 days is way too short of a timespan. If you put a piece of bamboo in the ground it’s not going to biodegrade in 50 days, for example. Most of the disposable plastic we use is on stuff that is wet, so I am incredibly skeptical about the utility of this.