The report: everything we were screaming into the void from 2023 till 2024.
The report is moot other than the fact they trying to bury it because anyone with two twigs to run together knows the answer, knew it before it happened, knew it while it was happening, and knows it now.
Trump was easily beatable in 2024 and Dems blew it at every turn.
You want to see the roadmap for beating Trump?
Sort c/politics by controversial and read the top five threads of comments.
It’s all there in black and white, in no uncertain terms. And the shitlibs who insisted we take the worst strategy turns possible (and advocating for them in those threads)…they mostly jumped ship (santanko and squid being notable examples).
It’s also worth nothing how many voices who go their analysis at the time basically correct at the time it would have mattered, how many of them are banned from politics as a whole. There was a clear moderation effort made to cultivate a specific type of conversation here.
I feel really stupid asking this but how do you sort by controversial? I hit the sort button but none of them says controversial. I’m using piefed app. Sorry I’m new here.
In voyager I press the cool skull button:
Thanks friend. Looks like the piefed app doesn’t have this functionality. Guess it’s time to change.
If genocide isn’t a red line then there are no red lines, every lib that voted for blue no matter who should be in the Hague along with the rest of the murderers
You really saved us all with your not voting.
I voted party. The allure of being hated by the entire country for my voting decisions is too compelling to pass up.
So did I. And if the rest of the lib population had any actual ethics third party would have won
You mean Jill Stein who shows up ever 4 years, runs for the president, siphoning off 2 to 3% of the liberal vote over a single issue, collects a check, and then disappears for 4 years. That’s not a real third party, that’s a grift.
She can’t siphon votes that were never going to the DNC to begin with. Where’s any of the DNC leaders right now when we have ice arresting and killing citizens, trump running all over the constitution, a house rep tweeted today that someone should tell trump to do his job, and if she’s not that someone elected into office to do just that. Jill on the other hand is actually attending protests in support of the working class.
Where is she now?
I voted for her but like I’m not a liberal so…
Still voted for a con artist.
I voted third party
You really saved us with your… supporting genocide?
If you allowed trump to win, you supported genocide.
And if you allowed Harris to think she could win while supporting genocide, you supported genocide.
Innocents were dead either way. What’s worse, ten thousand dead innocents or a hundred thousand dead innocents?
What’s your answer to the trolley problem? Do you let ten people die because you don’t want the moral culpability of one person’s death?
Combine that with the “drowning child” thought experiment. If you witness a child drowning in a pond, do you have a moral responsibility to save them? If you simply walk away, are you less morally culpable for that child’s death?
My answer to the trolley problem is to physically stop the people tying others to the tracks when that was never necessary or helpful.
Man… how many bricks to the side of y’all’s head do we have to take to get you to understand that a) an election isn’t about individual choice, and b) telling people what to do with their votes is counter productive.
If you were doing in 2023/24 what you are doing now, with that comment: You’re why fascism won.
You aren’t part of the collective that got it right. You’re being the shit lib who handed the world to the fascists.
Fascism won because millions of people refused to vote against it, because the alternative wasn’t perfect.
Stop blaming the people who literally voted against fascism. Does believing in harm reduction make one a “shitlib” in your view?
Fascism won because the Democratic party didn’t want to adopt an anti-genocide stance.
You’re an apologist for fascism if you are blaming voters.
Biden and Harris were nowhere near as bad for Gaza as trump is, and papering over that detail hasn’t helped the situation
An entire fucking genocide happened under their “deeply concerned” watch bruh.
Stop apologizing for fascism.
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
That said, I hate both the DNC and the non-voters. I can do both. If free will exists, then I can blame both. (I mean I don’t believe in free will, but on an emotional level fuck both anyway, I don’t owe either of them shit.)
You hated the DNC so much you voted for them and defend their actions tooth and nail?
I voted for them for tactical purposes. Both because at the time I cared about the well being of my fellow human beings and I care about my own well being. These days I’m not so sure I care about humans or even myself. I’m still grappling with the point of it all now that we’re doomed.
I understand that tactics aren’t likely your strong suit, so let me make it clear: I do not have to love the democrats as a party to vote for them. I just have to have a basic grip on reality that it was either them or fascism. Because its first past the post we are dealing with.
Well then tactically you fucked up lol
it was either them or fascism
Who do you think helped prop up and build the foundations for fascism? That’s what your tactics resulted in.
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
Denying reality over and over again doesn’t make you right and the perspective you are espousing was the dominant narrative up until the elective. That individually voters just needed to “do better”. You want to blame voters; you need them to win elections. Explain to me how you plan on getting back the 6% of Democratic voters you lost using your approach? You blamed them for failure before the contest was even run and they didn’t show up for you. Now what? How does your analysis change their minds into showing up?
What you are doing is the same thing petroleum companies did around recycling in the 90s. By believing this is some negotiation of individual choice, you are obscuring the fact that the Democrats structurally undermined their own ability to stop fascism. Blaming the individual is why fascism won.
You want to blame voters; you need them to win elections. Explain to me how you plan on getting back the 6% of Democratic voters you lost using your approach?
I don’t need to win shit anymore. I don’t care, its obviously a fool’s errand to give a shit. The 2024 US election taught me that. All worrying about politics does it hurt me.
You blamed them for failure before the contest was even run and they didn’t show up for you. Now what? How does your analysis change their minds into showing up?
All that’s left is rot, so I’m going to pick through the garbage and hope to find some gems before we all drown in shit. My analysis is just based on brutal reality. They did not show up “for themselves” as well. Its not just me they’ve hurt. Leopards are eating faces, and not all the owners of those faces are “shitlibs” and MAGA, some of them are protestors who didn’t vote.
There is no means for me to change people’s minds on voting so you don’t need worry about me trying. I just want people to understand that the very virtue obsessed moral framework they are using to make their decision to not vote has hurt them. Its doomed them. I want them to feel bad about it because in so far that someone can deserve to feel bad about it, they definitely should.
What you are doing is the same thing petroleum companies did around recycling in the 90s. By believing this is some negotiation of individual choice, you are obscuring the fact that the Democrats structurally undermined their own ability to stop fascism. Blaming the individual is why fascism won.
No its not. In a purely rational sense, I don’t really blame anyone. Free will doesn’t actually exist.
But within the context of people I can like, dislike, or hate as the emotional creature that I am: I definitely can fucking loathe multiple groups at the same time and feel catharsis at their suffering.
I think you are still operating under the delusion that this second Trump term is something we will escape from, but the thing is, bad times don’t create good times. They create more bad times. We are in the gravity well of a metaphorical political and environmental black hole, and you are in denial.
The dems will win in 2028, and it wont matter much, other than we’ll get some sweet painkillers as we pass into oblivion. Because the GOP will win in 2032. Or society will completely collapse. Or the globe will roast all of our food and we’ll all starve. There are not much in the way of good things to look forward to.
I don’t need to win shit anymore. I don’t care,
Great. Then just keep it all to yourself then. All bottled up deep inside so you don’t hand the fascists another victory.
I can see both sides of this. Yes, the moral and proper thing to do is to be anti-genocide and to take an anti-Israal, anti-Zionist position after the Gaza invasion. We were right to insist upon it as a condition for our vote and whoever the Dem nominee was should have taken a hard anti-Gaza war stance. However, the reality of the situation is that the vile monsters that control the party didn’t listen to us and ignored or talked around this issue for those sweet, sweet AIPAC dollars. We all know that they didn’t listen to us for an entire year. This was the reality on election day.
Knowing this, if you still voted for Trump, a third party, or “not at all” on election day instead of holding your nose and voting for Harris, you are just as responsible for the fascism we have now as any shitlib who was screaming at anyone and everyone to “fuck off, and fall in line” or “vote blue no matter who” before and during the election.
You didn’t have to tell anyone you were going vote for Harris. In fact, we should have been telling the Dem party that we will refuse to vote for them right up until the end. Hell, you can still deny today that you ever voted for Harris in 2024, as long as you actually did in secret.
My absolute favorite downvoted comment. Will frame it for posterity
Good comment.
Their tactic of “We not as bad as X” doesn’t work anymore. The compromising position is to compromise yourself. Never again.
So you’re saying you’re an ICE enabler and collaborator by that logic?
You want to try people at the hague for voting against fascism? That sounds like something a fascist would say.
What about the people who refused to vote against it, do you just want to give them a pass?
I guess the millions starving because USAID got cut isn’t a red line.
Or all the undocumented immigrants in the US getting rounded up into camps, some whisked away to who knows where, also isn’t a red line.
Or women losing their bodily autonomy on the first go around, due to SCOTUS being cemented as conservative for the rest of our lives.
Or trans people fearing for their lives and being unable to flee the US because their passport will get scrutinized.
Or virtually all environmental regulations in the US getting cut so now we contribute more intensely to our cooking planet.
All of this is not only not a redline, its preferable. Because the shitlibs must be punished, right?
I don’t think I will ever understand you. I don’t even know if you’re real. What are you trying to accomplish?
The sole purpose of USAID was for regime change and the illusion of aid needed caused by US actions
I’m sure now that USAID is shut down the regime change will stop. The millions of starving people clearly were a necessary sacrifice.
When it’s US actions that were causing them to starve, yes
They were a necessary sacrifice? Wait you are going to need to elaborate.
They wouldn’t be starving if the US stayed out of their politics. The US creates the circumstances to destabilize their economies, overthrow their governments then come in with USAID to assist as if they didn’t cause the problem.
Oh you edited in some more.
Dems had 50 years and multiple opportunities to protect women’s rights and did nothing but raise money off that fear.
Yeah I hate the dems too.
The first 2 months of Bidens was in Gaza released the equivalent of 275k tons of burning coal, not so concerned about the environmental pact of that.
I promise you that the environmental impact of Gaza being turned into glass is dwarfed by the invasion of Ukraine and like, everything else going on globally. You live in a stupid bubble where everything bad that exists is because of zionism and Israel and their genocide of Palestinians. If cared enough I’d bet money.
Well, I suppose you’re welcome to your opinion, even if it’s an absolutely horrid one.
Youve convinced me. Voting FOR genocide was probably the best solution
Ah, yes. Because that’s the most objectionable part of that opinion, not ‘We should jail people for their voting behavior’. Can you get any more authoritarian?
Edit: But sure, if that’s where we’re going, I’ll bite:
It was a two party race. There were no other viable candidates. You didn’t vote against Trump in any meaningful way; you did nothing to prevent our current situation, and that’s a pretty wild stance to be defending.
Biden or Harris weren’t viable candidates either.
They lost by 1% so that makes them non-viable? As opposed to who? How does this blatantly stupid garbage get upvotes?
The popular vote isnt how US elections are tallied. Harris lost all 7 battleground states. 312 electoral votes to 226. thats 42% Harris to 58% Trump in the tally. Harris trailed an openly fascist clown by 16 percentage points. It wasnt even close.
no other viable candidates
But there were other candidates that I actually like. Claudia de la Cruz, for instance.
All your candidate would do is kick the can down the road for a few years before “the most important election of OUR ENTIRE LIVES” happens again. I’d like to vote for someone I actually support before I inevitably get my throat slit by some SS whackjob, you know?
Tell that to all the people IN FUCKING CAMPS right now. I bet they would’ve loved a few more years of freedom. You talk in hypotheticals about what might happen to you, meanwhile it is not hypothetical for many of us.
Fuck your academic bullshit. You don’t give a flying fuck about anyone but yourself and your little ego.
Shouldn’t you be organizing so your people don’t get easily abducted by some psycho cops? Or if you’re not planning to do that, getting your asses out of the country so the psycho cops can’t find you?
I was proud when I saw that the people of Minneapolis could call in some people to come help if ICE was spotted on the prowl. Those guys know how to take care of business.
But then we’ve got the Blue No Matter Who folks who think the feds will put a stop to the madness if they just vote a little bit harder. It’s like you could have a family member of yours be dragged into a black van right in front of you by ICE and all you would say is, “Oh, I’ll call my congressman to secure your release! Yeah!”. Compared to doing everything in your power to rescue your family member, even if the cops execute you for it.
Claudia de la Cruz
Who?
Socialist candidate in 2024.
She wasn’t “my” candidate, any more than Donald Trump was “your” candidate. I voted against Donald Trump. Folks who voted third party didn’t do that. They may not have voted for him, but they didn’t vote against him.
If Kamala Harris wasn’t against the genocide, a vote for Kamala wasn’t a vote against Trump, or fascism or anything else.
Kamala wasn’t going to win while supporting the genocide. Period. It’s not a debate. Voting for her wasn’t a vote against Trump because with her holding that stance, she couldn’t beat Trump (which is objective reality:she didn’t beat Trump).
It was a two party race.
Wrong.
You were just fine with genocide as long it targeted black people and Latinos in America and not Palestinians.
Oh wait they’re targeting Palestinian immigrants here too. Fucking traitor.
The real issue with you people it’s that you don’t actually care about anyone but yourself. It’s all about your pathetic EGO and being right and not protecting people to the best of your ability.
Fuck every last one of you third party ICE-loving traitors.
And every non-voter who’s “high road” they dichtomously make fun of Obama for has allowed more genocide is what, better? The choices were some genocide or more genocide, avoiding the choice is just a choice for more genocide. Trolley on way to kill 5 people do you pull the lever to kill 1 or don’t pull the lever and let it kill 5. Unsurprising that people will blame you for not pulling the lever and you’re upset that people did try and pull the lever.
Yes but they should probably blame the guy that tied people to the track in the first place. I think most see it as scapegoating. Politicians dictate their own policies and you have to be very vocal about the ones that suck to be heard over the corporate money. Blaming voters gets you zilch.
I’m going to blame the guy who tied six people to the tracks as well as the guy that didn’t pull the lever. I’m going to blame the guy who tied them to the tracks a lot more, but I can blame both.
I disagree. I don’t think we should support genocide at all, full stop, period. But I guess some folks are okay with a little genocide, as a treat
It’s fine as long it’s just cultural genocide and ice is doing it instead of the IDF. It’s wild how some of you care more about Palestine than your own fucking neighbors.
You mean some folks are okay with more genocide, as long as they pretend not doing the bare minimum to reduce the account of genocide absolves them of responsibility.
You are litterally doing the thing that handed the country to fascists: you are a fascist enabler.
If you continue to blame voters instead of those in power, you are supporting fascism, and we should ALL collectively recognize you as a fascist.
Yeah, fuck me for thinking vote for the lesser evil and work towards better rather than let the greater evil win and then??? How dare I desire not to worry about gestapo throwing me in a hole for my skin color while I fight for better. Instead of fighting for better im just fighting to survive. Fucks sake.
Yeah, fuck me for thinking vote for the lesser evil and work towards better
Yeah. Fuck you for that. Thinking like that blew the fucking election and handed the country to fascists. Thats what we’re saying. Accepting or advocating for lesser evil loses elections time and again. If you were advocating for that approach in 2023/4, the fascism is on you.
Its the entire point we’ve been making since 2023.
So what was your alternative then, genius? Did you vote for the fucking green party? Fucking ice lover. You people pretend to be moral but you’re literally ejaculating at the chance to massively inflate your pathetic ego, that’s all you really care about.
Move the fucking candidate to electable fucking positions you fucking dingus. You can’t move the fucking electorate. Period. Accept the reality of how elections work and fucking adjust according shit-for-brains, instead of insisting a population vote for a candidate whose policies they don’t want.
Blue MAGA did this to us you fucking moron. People who insisted that people just had to suck it up and fucking vote for genocide when instead they could have been insisting the candidate change her fucking position.
It’s like you turds go through completely unwilling to accept the reality of how elections work. You just keep insisting that we have to rely on voter to just "do better when they never do.
If you can’t accept that some people won’t vote for a pro genocide candidate,and that you lost the election by insisting people do so, you are why we are here.
Reminder that there are more then two choices on every ballot in every county. If you don’t bother using them because you really think “your team” should win, then you don’t really have any business participating in democracy.
Sure, that sounds good to say in theory, but I’m sure you’re aware that a First Past the Post voting system kinda makes a third party effectively a wasted vote. Normally I’d support a third party absolutely, but in the last election, a vote that wasn’t for Dems was, unfortunately, a vote for Trump and I’m having a hard time believing you’re actually so dense as to not understand that
You will never get to vote for change if you always accept what you are given. Every single election since I started paying attention to politics has been “the most important election in my lifetime.” So with your thinking there is never a time to vote for your values, only the values they have enshrined in both candidates by choosing which candidates of both parties are “electable.”
Lesser evil never leads towards better, it leads to worse. A small acceptable amount of evil allows for a larger evil the next time. 50+ years if that shit and here we are
Lesser evil never leads towards better, it leads to worse.
Even more so with a greater evil.
Nobody is saying “settle for the lesser evil”. They are saying it’s easier to fight for progress against the lesser evil than the greater evil.
Small, acceptable amounts of evil allows for a larger amount of evil the next time. If you compound that over decades, you have our current situation. You can’t vote your way out of our current situation.
The dissent was widely known and broadcast — they chose their line. And it will cost us decades if not generations.
yep, I think the centrists think of it as a single lost election that they can just have a do over on next cycle. Many of the dem base voters they imagine will come back are third party for life now. People take supporting genocide pretty personally. Many on here like finitebanjo and givesomefucks want to pretend the DNC dems never supported genocide. But they did, and still do. Theres no take backsies or do overs on that.
I like to point out that Democrats had anti-LGBT+ beliefs, feelings, and I’m certain passed legislation for it then started backing off when it became hot button relevant. Which is good, but they are not the innocent poster boys/girls they like to make themselves out to be.
So we’re just saying things now huh
Provide evidence of statement. Watch them try to disagree with their very eyes. Orwellian as hell with the neo-libs in this post.
Removed by mod
The comment you were responding to.
I like to point out that Democrats had anti-LGBT+ beliefs, feelings
The video proves objectively that was true. Same with genocide today. The party doesn’t get to skate by ignoring genocide anymore. They must change or they will continue to lose. If you continue to vote for their continued support of genocide, it means you support genocide.Removed by mod
Don’t pretend or white wash it, even Democrats were anti-LGBT+.
They still are, we all saw how Harris threw trans under the bus
Ya I’m stil on the if your trans thats fine doesn’t bother anyone.
But the keep your son off my natural daughter’s team. Is an opinion a lot of people have and to pretend that’s not turning away voters is huge. And trying to force it will continue to equal losses
Downvote me all you want, I know I am right, you deep down know I’m right. And the majority of Americans are right
You can take your “both sides bad” and shove it you worthless scumbag.
…Useless centrists whining about the outcomes of their own bad ideas as they steer the party off cliff after cliff. You know who saw Harris’s loss coming in the last election Halfsaleman? Everyone. Everyone but centrists like yourself as, you cheerfully pulled the voting lever to support what you claim without proof was support for a “lesser, kinder, gentler” genocide. We’re all here in trumpland because of people like yourself.
You are delusional or a liar and your painting me as a centrist is cope or hollow propaganda. Eat shit.
Nope, because they’re the same side.
Next up: Dems working on secret report found Epstein and Trump were friends!
Not just friends! Best friends! Besties!
Wow! You mean that thing that a shitload of people were screaming warnings about has finally been heard? And only 18 months too late to do anything about it! At this rate, they might figure out that trump is a pedophile before he dies. I sure do have a lot of hope that future elections are gonna go well and totally not be ratfucked out in the open with no pushback of any actual consequence. I’m glad that there will be a stern letter threatening to file a lawsuit (that will never happen) due to armed CBP and ICE at the polls terrorizing BIPOC. Inspiring stuff, papa Schumer!
Also the think they told those during surveys to not include in reports 🙃
Huh. Maybe next time we tell them “supporting mass murder is bad even if the other side does it too” they’ll listen.
They won’t. They would rather lose and be controlled opposition. But one can hope for change.
Who could have predicted supporting mass murder would look bad?
Funny enough. Last week they still are.
They’re still openly defending Israel.
Scoop: no fucking shit.
So exhausting.
My surprised Pikachu meme died a while ago. Pretend I’m posting him here.
All the crummy neo-lib takes makes me regret having voted for it to begin with. I compromised myself for the sake of damage control and I’m furious about it. I consider a neo-liberal as no better than MAGAt because when the mask comes off, they aren’t.
We’ve seen the mask of humanity fall off, and we’re asked not to believe what we’ve seen with our own eyes. It’s absolutely disgusting. I’ve seen liberals call not wanting to support an actual genocide a purity test. I’ve seen them refer to billions in military aid for a genocide “not perfect” (the implication being “good enough for me”).
Now, finally, American fascism is turning inward. They finally feel even just 1% of the violence they’ve been meting out on the rest of the world for decades, under every single president since Eisenhower. They deserve all of it, and more.
Yeah, I often think about that post that goes something like, “Donald Trump has done more damage to the American Empire and its propaganda machine than the last few decades of leftist organizing.”
I don’t like it. But I’m not sure it’s wrong either lmao
Good thing we don’t all get what we deserve.
The neolibs are usually treating LGBTQ+ folks and immigrants as remotely human, as opposed to targets. Even if you find the two parties to be woefully similar on too many big issues, please remember that, for as long as we exist in the shit system where election day really only lets you meaningfully choose between these two shitty parties, the lives of disenfranchised and vulnerable people do sit in one of the areas of difference where your vote could change something.
Nah sorry, at some point it’s on the Dems to pick an electable candidate. People act like it’s just leftists being unreasonable but the majority of Dem voters are pissed at the DNC. Responsibility isn’t a one sided thing here, you can’t expect a dog to be loyal if you keep kicking it.
I fully agree that the Democrat party needs to get its shit together, or more realistically torn down and rebuilt. Just also saying that, when all is said and done and it comes time for the general election, I’m going to place my vote where it’s going to do the most to deny, or at least delay, authoritarians.
Neo-libs treat LGBTQ and immigrants as just another group of ppl to exploit for financial gain. Pretending they actually give a shit about anyone other than themselves is naive
Never said they gave a shit, just noting that - at minimum - they don’t seem to be shouting as loudly that they should be denied medical care, deported, etc. I will continue to do what is reasonably within my power, means, and capacity to work for a society that is fair and equal for all. If an election comes around that only meaningfully lets me choose between two piles of shit, I will choose the less smelly one rather than abstain.
“Please endorse the systemic murder of tens of thousands of children so I can maintain safety and comfort without needing to push for a candidate who will both maintain my safety and comfort without carpet bombing babies.”
Sorry, no.
I absolutely do not support the Democrat party writ large, and especially not on the willful disregard for genocide and other atrocities. Don’t decide for me that that is my stance, or put those words in my mouth and effectively tell other people that is how I feel.
My core point is that, Democrats seem to be less vocally approving/encouraging about stochastic terrorism against LGBTQ+ people, immigrants, and other marginalized groups, whether they are privately seeing them as chess pieces or human beings.
If one group is shouting that my cousins are subhuman trash undeserving of equal treatment and dog whistling support for people who advocate violence against them, and the other group is at least not encouraging the same violence, then my cousins would seem to be safer under the second group.
I advocate loudly for party reform or replacement and consider that to be the more important part of civic duty in this arena. When it comes time for an election, past when we can do a lot to change which two people actually have a chance to win a presidency, I will cast my vote for the one less likely to get my cousins killed.
If words and theater alone are sufficient to appease you, if the death of innocent human beings overseas is an acceptable price for the protection of those close to you, then that’s your prerogative. If that is the case, though, then I will not be quiet about how revolting I find your moral calculus to be. And I have no doubt that my nonbinary, immigrant partner would share in my disgust, doubly so if you feigned it to somehow be in her interest.
Do your cousins think that protecting them from harsh rhetoric is an acceptable price for the genocide of children? Or are you doing it solely for your own comfort? Because, while we’re sharing anecdotes, if it’s the former, then I suspect that my transgender, pro-Palestine cousin might like to have a word with them.
Jesus, you seem to relish in imagining my meaning to be so opposed to your own. Obviously words and theater enough aren’t alone. I think I made that clear. I also think we are done talking, since it doesn’t seem to matter what I say.
Indeed, I don’t think I can convince you that the deaths of Palestinians should take precedence over the hypothetical discomfort, or even danger, of those closest to you. I can’t convince you that all human beings are of equal value. You’re on your own there.
You don’t need to, I already agree with you on that point.
Ya, no shit.
no fucking shit. idiots.
Wow, came up with that themselves did they?
deleted by creator
secret
why?
Because it proves they’re incompetent.
Wut? Duh. That’s literally why she lost
Gaza is almost certainly not the only reason. We also have Latinos for Trump, the Right Wing Podcast pipeline, endemic sexism, and endemic racism to thank.
Always trying to deflect it back in voters and never the candidates that don’t represent the people that refused to vote for her
I mean… have you MET most voters?
Of course I’m blaming the voters. We had a job to do, a responsibility which we clearly failed to do. Our job is to make the best decision possible at the voting booth, not wait for idiots to make the decision for us while we make popcorn and complain we didn’t also get candy and a soda.
The fundamental principal of “democracy” requires that “The voters are always right”.
Any argument that the voters themselves are wrong is an indictment of democracy itself. It is a suggestion that We The People are incapable of governing ourselves, and require the external mandate of a benevolent dictator.
You can argue that a candidate failed to appeal to the voters. You can argue that the voting system failed to accurately reflect voter sentiment. You can argue that third parties unduly influenced the voters. You can point out the paradox of Trump being worse for Palestine than Harris would have been. But in a democracy, the voters are the source of truth. Laying blame on the voters requires rejection of the very idea of democracy.
To extend your metaphor, you want to go out to the movies with a bunch of friends. You and most of the group want to watch Oppenheimer. But most of the people who want Oppenheimer would rather just download it and watch it at home. We would only go to the theater for candy and soda and popcorn. Knowing that we aren’t going to show up without all three, you vetoed two of them, and called us selfish assholes for wanting what we want. Now you’re complaining that the people who did show up selected Barbie, and you’re trying to blame us, even as you ignore that you’re the reason why we didn’t bother to go out.
If Palestine is getting bombed no matter what happens, the only voters who are coming out are the ones who want Palestine bombed.
You and most of the group want to watch Oppenheimer. But most of the people who want Oppenheimer would rather just download it and watch it at home. We would only go to the theater for candy and soda and popcorn. Knowing that we aren’t going to show up without all three, you vetoed two of them, and called us selfish assholes for wanting what we want. Now you’re complaining that the people who did show up selected Barbie, and you’re trying to blame us, even as you ignore that you’re the reason why we didn’t bother to go out.
Any argument that the voters themselves are wrong is an indictment of democracy itself.
That’s a lot of words you seem to be putting in my mouth there friend. These aren’t mutually exclusive ideas. I can blame voters for not showing up to the polls and still see the value in a democratic government.
If Palestine is getting bombed no matter what happens, the only voters who are coming out are the ones who want Palestine bombed.
And I thought I had the hot take, holy shit. This is simultaneously an argument to disenfranchise ourselves from the democratic process AND the assumption that those who did participate in the electoral process, regardless of their actual beliefs, are automatically pro-genocide. I’m actually astounded that this is your argument. It’s insane.
This is simultaneously an argument to disenfranchise ourselves from the democratic process
That’s a common error: Abstention is not disenfranchisement.
Demanding the voters select from two genocidal candidates is disenfranchisement: the only democratic choice remaining is abstention.
Just because we didn’t vote for your shade of fascism doesn’t mean we didn’t show up. The whole get in line and comply is a thing of the past, candidates can either earn our vote or can fuck off.
If a genocide isn’t your red line anything you say after that isnt irrelevant or significant
We also have Latinos for Trump
This is a good point. The Democrats also abandoned the idea that immigration was a moral issue or that building the wall was based on racism, and instead tried to run on, “We’re the real border hawks” and it won over approximately zero moderate conservatives while alienating Latinos.
the Right Wing Podcast pipeline,
Another good point. Right wing podcasters and streamers are often promoted by the GOP, their politicians will go on their shows, even if they aren’t 100% aligned. The good news is, there is one leftist streamer who has a big audience, on a similar level to some of the big rightist streamers, who could have been used to level the playing field at least a bit. The bad news is, because he supports Palestine, the Democrats wanted nothing to do with him, and completely failed to make use of him or even appeal to him.
Expanding on the Latinos for Trump thing, lots of white liberals seem to be shocked at the levels of rightwing support from the Latino population. They speculate (wrongly) that it’s due to Cubans in Florida; and while that group does support the right, it’s not because they remember their time in Cuba and hold a grudge against communism.
No, the issue is one that has been around a long time now and has been completely ignored because most people don’t speak Spanish. Almost all mainstream Spanish media, from shows, to news, to social media has been far, far, FAR right for decades now. Like, it makes Fox News look like MSNBC.
And the language barrier is a 2 part issue. Not only are English speaking liberals completely unaware of how bad the propaganda is, but people that are only fluent in Spanish don’t hear any alternatives. All they get is the propaganda, there are no other sources. You tell them about the horrible stuff Trump or the GOP has done and they look at you with a blank face. They don’t hear about it, because it’s never reported for them. And people on Spanish social media tend not to talk about it for the same reason.
The rot is deep. Very deep. Telemundo and Univision have completely fucked the Latino populace by hiding reality from them and pushing pro-billionaire messaging.
No, the issue is one that has been around a long time now and has been completely ignored because most people don’t speak Spanish. Almost all mainstream Spanish media, from shows, to news, to social media has been far, far, FAR right for decades now. Like, it makes Fox News look like MSNBC.
Aside from that, they know they have a captive audience for many of their viewers, who are unable to go fact check them by consulting English-media. This is true for monolingual Spanish speakers, but also for many folks who have learned enough English to get by in their day-to-day lives, but who are not comfortable following or discussing something more complex like politics in English.
Pretty much every time I would watch the news with my mother-in-law, if they had an interview or clip from a politician dub over into Spanish, I’d catch them engaging in some fuckery with their translations. Either they would deliberately omit parts of what was said to make the translated part sound worse, or they would choose key words where they would pick a translation that is related to a more accurate word for the English word spoken, but with a much more negative connotation to it.
They’d also ignore when right-wing conspiracy theories get debunked in English, and just keep on pushing them for months after they’d been discredited with no mention of this fact, as though they were widely held, mainstream beliefs.
Then again, white Americans who don’t interact with either group very much seem to consider all Latino and Black Americans as two monolithic voting blocks, ignoring the reality of the many different cultures, national backgrounds and ethnicities that comprise either group. Lots of white people just think of them as solid, unreachable Democratic voters, for some reason. There are plenty of people in either group who the Democrats can’t reach, because despite agreeing with the rest of a Democrat or Progressive platforms, they hold deeply conservative religious or cultural beliefs on abortion and sexuality. Like, I hear people saying “¡Maricón!” on the daily more often than I heard edgy kids dropping the f-word on the middle school playground back in the day, and nobody bats an eye because rampant homophobia is still a cultural given in a lot of places, unfortunately. If you actually interact with any people of color on a regular basis, it’s probably not as surprising to see how the right can pull in greater numbers of POC by playing to the right themes for those deeply held views and prejudices.
Thank you for providing this insight. My grandparents did not speak English, I can only imagine that they were similarly disinformed by the limited access to media from their native tongue.
Very few people voted for Trump. He didn’t win.
Stop blaming voters and focus on fixing the voting system.
Bruh he won the popular vote.
Because there was no progressive candidate at the debates
Based on his track record if I only viewed things through the lens of “What can you do for me?” then Trump should have lost. His first term was a travesty and the COVID lack of response a showing of his incompetence. But some of those voters still voted for him despite this and it confounds me how.
His name was on the checks that went out. It created a positive association that people didn’t forget, but they did their best to shove everything that happened for the 2-3 years it was really really bad down the memory hole. Just to maintain their sanity.
Several things happened. One, he picked the most vulnerable swing states and focused on those, and delivered exactly the message people wanted to hear. Second, Harris in those same states instead of telling people what they wanted to hear, told them she wasn’t trump, and paraded out unpopular conservatives to try to swing right leaning voters her direction. Instead of finding a massage to give people a good reason to vote for her, she leaned pretty hard on “well have you seen this other guy??”
People crave motion and action. So in those few states she got her ass handed to her. The rest of the country largely voted along the lines it always has. Democrats learned nothing from Obama’s victory or Clinton’s loss, they thought they’d successfully turned the tide after Biden swept up a fucking disaster and then went on to make a half hearted attempt at badly needed though still unpopular debt relief. Then he took too much cold medicine before a debate and got his ass handed to him.
Most people aren’t thinking much beyond the roof over their head and the food on their table. If Democrats can’t make those two things easier, the guys with a bad plan looks better than the guys without one at all.
I think that American society is still much more misogynist and racist than we realize. I don’t like it, but I think that if the Dems had done most everything exactly the same except had given the nomination to a straight, white male, then Trump would not have won. Between this and GOP vote stealing, that is how Trump won. Otherwise, the dumpster fire that was Trump’s first admin would have guaranteed that he lost in 2024. I don’t know what else explains it except some combination of misogyny, racism, and vote-counting shenanigans.
What? Trump has the second and fourth most votes in history in the US, plenty of people voted for him. That’s literally the problem, that 77 million people could sign up up vote for this guy post covid fuck up.
What percent is that?
It’s low as fuck. Almost everyone hates him.
That’s true, especially right now. His polling numbers are like post covid low right now.
So breaking down 2024 (I’m not gonna use exact numbers for brevity, but the percentages are), let’s call the population of the US around 340 million. Like 73% of the people who can vote were registered to vote in that election, 170+ million people. Only 65% of eligible voters either voted or had their votes counted (there was verifiable voter suppression and vote destruction, in addition to the billionaire doing illegal voter manipulation), around 150+ million.
Kamala got just over 48% of of those votes 75+ million, Trump got just under 50% with 77+ million. So at the end of the day Trump won with 31% of the totally number of eligible voters and Kamala lost with 30%.
So yeah I’m the grand scheme of things is certainly not even close to a majority of people and only a very close plurality of voters.
Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voter-turnout-2020-2024/
Yes, if the US was a democracy that allowed a progressive candidate to run a normal race, they would win by a landslide.
Few people are moved by milk toast centrists nor far right fascists.
Also true.
