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I’ve been saying since EVs hit the market that I couldn’t wait for them to be cheap enough used for me to justify purchasing one. That hasn’t happened yet. Most I’ve ever spent on a car was $7k.
For sure, we can’t expect a good used EV market until we establish a strong new EV market.
It definitely has nothing to do with the outrageous starting price range.
Yup, American manufacturers are still treating EVs as if they’re this exotic new toy for upper-middle class people or silicon valley douche bros, rather than getting onboard with the concept of them just being a utilitarian thing that needs to be marketed to normal people.
Give me the EV equivalent of the Geo Metro and I’ll buy it in a heart beat. I’m not taking out a second mortgage for a car that tries to drive itself and whatever dumb gimmicks they come up with, but I will 100% buy an affordable, practical EV designed with efficiency and economy in mind.
I’m with you. I ended up just buying a used gas vehicle because the others are just too expensive.
2026 Bolt could change that. Hopefully the ultium system is fixed up by then. Also base model Volvo EX30s are going to come from Belgium to maintain their mid 30’s price point.
What we really need is the government to make a grant or low interest loan available to anyone with a parking lot and an electrical hookup to put in fast chargers. Everything from libraries to gas stations.
It is not a defense of the manufacturers, but EVs are still damn expensive to make. And they are completely at fault for that too, because everyone except Tesla dragged their feet about making the EV transition.
Right, and worse. After years of dragging their feet, broadcasting FUD to discourage potential customers, they try to all release premium priced cars at once to now uncertain customers. And priced well above their initial announcements. Of course their naive predictions of ridiculous growth didn’t pan out. They’re not just guilty of dragging their feet, but screwing up when they finally tried it.
And what the heck is wrong with GM? The second biggest American seller of EVs, and they drop what has been working, to make the same mistake as everyone else. And wtf were they thinking about piling on with dropping CarPlay and claiming they can do better: wtf, we e seen what you can do, that’s why everyone wants CarPlay. Oh, and I’m sure all this talk about subscriptions is really going to bring in the buyers
At least for me the reasons are
- Lack of interest
- They’re ridiculously Ugly
- Range (I’ve driven 1500 miles in the last 3 weeks)
- Driving Experience is worse (opinion, but still something I stand by)
- Charging
- Price
When I was looking at new cars an EV wasn’t even an option. I wanted a 2 door performance coupe and there isn’t anything even close to that in EVs, let alone on the used market. A 2014 Audi was a better choice in almost every metric beyond gas prices.
I would like to note that if you wanted to drive as far as possible, my car could probably go more than 5000mi in three weeks, though I typically only drive a few hundred a week.
And contrary to a gas car I never have to stop to fuel, I just get home and it charges over night.
Also, what’s wrong with the “driving experience”? It’s not loud enough or something?
I regularly do 400+ mile trips in a day or two ( I’m a photographer ) and need to be able to quickly have range available in non major metro areas.
Since I live in an apartment overnight charging isn’t an option. So I’d still have to go places to charge, which takes significantly longer than stopping for gas.
Driving experince is subjective, but instant power with no real hp/torque curves makes driving really boring. There’s no response from the car, it’s just an On/Off toggle. There’s no real fun to driving it.
Yes the sound is a major part. I’ve got a very nice, valved exhaust system on my new car that adds a ton to how much fun the car is. Hearing the engine, how it responds and how the power is applied is a major part of the fun of driving.
If all you want is a car to get from point A to point B, an EV is completely fine, but as someone who genuinely enjoys cars and driving, EVs are boring and will 100% get you laughed out of most car shows.
You’re worried it’s not loud enough and that people will laugh at you in car shows?? You’re part of the problem.
Nah, I just enjoy cars and (legal) racing.
I’m never going to be interested in an EV. They’re boring, soulless creations that don’t interest me as an enthusiast. They’re great commuter vehicles, but that’s where their use ends. ICE is always going to be preferred by car people.
You know this hobby of yours is directly or indirectly bad for the environment, for society (Middle East tensions, see 9/11), for road safety in case of SUVs that block view of children in front of it, for city planning, and I could go on. But still you’re a “car person”, so none of that matters.
Normal people will have to wait for you and other “car people” to die off for the planet to become a better place. Until then, you’re actively making things worse.
Why is charging bad? Id argue it’s a plus. You never have to go to a gas station and every morning you wake up with a full charge for your day.
I don’t have a place to charge at home, nor a way to run a cord from my apartment to a car, so charging becomes a 20-30 minute ordeal instead of a 3 minute tank of gas on my way to work.
That’s fair. Charging infrastructure isn’t ready if you can’t charge at home
My non EV is still perfectly serviceable and I don’t like all the superfluous electronic touchscreen bullshit they’re putting in modern vehicles so I’m going to keep driving it until the wheels fall off.
Yup, I’m looking at used EVs to replace my commuter (50mpg, so no hurry), and they come with a bunch of smart crap, so I’m looking at ways to block any potential phoning home before I buy the car.
It’s dumb. Just give me an EV with 150-200 miles range with no smart crap for $20k and I’ll buy it.
I don’t know what telematics the Leaf had, but you’re describing what Nissan tried to do with that
Neither do I, and that’s concerning. Here’s their privacy policy:
Connected Vehicle Data
If you have a connected vehicle, your vehicle may be equipped with NissanConnect Services, which electronically transmits data generated by your vehicle. This information could include data collected in the context of a trial period or demonstration mode. Through these services, we may obtain vehicle and driving information, such as:
- Vehicle operation – including Vehicle Identification Number (VIN), Precise Geolocation and navigation information, speed and distance information, driving behavior, EV battery information (including use management, charging history and performance), electrical system functions, diagnostic trouble codes, maintenance conditions, software version information, and similar data
- Vehicle usage – your use of the vehicle’s functions and some corresponding services, websites and smartphone applications
- Vehicle status – information about door locks, open doors, engine status, etc.
- Vehicle safety – data about certain accidents involving the vehicle (for example, the direction from which the vehicle was hit, and which air bags have deployed)
I don’t know if NissanConnect is optional (looks like it is?), or if it’s “optional,” as in you need to accept to access core car features, like setting battery charge limits, redeeming a warranty, or accessing diagnostics. But I know the capability exists and I’d really like to have guarantees, as in, can I block Nissan from remotely accessing my vehicle? If not, can I remove the module without impacting other functions of the car?
But it’s really hard (at least in my few minutes of searching) to figure out what privacy concerns there are and what options I have to deal with it.
It’s an industry wide problem for sure. Whatever politician takes that up will get huge votes.
My EV is likely one of the worst offenders l, but they’re all offenders
When I looked into similar for my 1996 Pontiac, it was already a concern, and it’s gotten much worse
I looked into it a bit, and it looks like Chevy’s OnStar should be easy to remove (just a circuit board behind the dash). It’s ridiculous that I need to go through this though, I should be able to just turn it off and it would be off…
Yes. Preferably an option in the form of a small single cab pickup truck with a full size bed.
Yeah, I would probably buy that. I currently use my minivan for must “truck” things, but neither my wife or I like driving it, and we can’t just get a load of mulch or whatever.
So yeah, something like the old Ford ranger would be awesome.
Same. With my driving needs I get fuel about every 2 weeks so it’s not a big burden. And I go on several long road trips each year and charging stations are not something I need to deal with.
I think most people in the market for an EV know that all the manufacturers are changing the charging port to the Tesla NACS standard next year. Range anxiety is still the biggest issue for EV adoption and the supercharger network is the only practical option right now. Tesla hasn’t innovated in a while and current Tesla owners are put off by Musk’s antics. I’d personally wait a year to see what the options are.
Range anxiety is still the biggest issue for EV adoption
Only because people keep making false claims like:
the supercharger network is the only practical option right now
True enough to get the industry in North America to move off vanilla ccs.
Can anyone name me one that is a normal fucking car? With a little dial that tells you how fast you’re going that isn’t an LCD display that can’t be read in direct sunlight connected to an internet connected computer that will never get OS updates? With a gear shift lever that moves forward and back or up and down to select park, reverse and drive, not a nipple in the glove box to lick for “Forward,” a knob on the ceiling labeled “H” and to put it in reverse you honk the word REVERSE on the horn? Where the doors have handles that you pull on to open that look like door handles, and locks that have cylinders that accept keys?
The 2023 Chevy Bolt I drove for a week had normal controls.
Volkswagen E-golf seems to fit your description.
Seems they’re discontinued?
Yes, the used ones are still pretty good though. I think the ID3 and ID4 are the successors to the eGolf.
Id2 is the actual successor. It’s planned to be the first VW “affordable” EV with a starting price below 25000 euros when it releases in 2025. At least they now try to target the budget market, but I’d never recommend a VW. They have done so much bad quality cars since the late 90s…
Been Driving one for almost 6 years and I gotta tell you the car is awesome. Sadly the battery-capacity is a bit dated. Depends on the use-case tho. Another negative point is the limited charging speed. In comparison to „modern“ EVs it‘s rather slow
The only ones I’ve found close to this is bz4x or soltera. Which is why I got it. But no drive shaft really sucks and confuses the heck out of me when I have to drive my outback around.
I’ll tell you why I won’t buy one.
I’m not going to go into debt as much as a house would’ve cost me 20 years ago so I can drive a 10,000 pound explosive that I spend several hours a day charging, be asked to pull over to turn on Bluetooth, have a tracking device in my car, which the government can turn off if they like, have to fumble with a touch screen to turn up the air conditioner, have to pay rent for features built into the car and then have any features I purchased be non transferrable on the secondary market. These are all fuck you’s to me, so I say fuck you to them. Take your vendor lock in SAAS product and shove it up your ass. You want me to give a shit about emissions, fix all that, until then I’m driving a 20 year old beater.
You’re literally describing every new car now, whether EV or ICE.
Yup, and I won’t buy a new gas car either.
Meh, some/much of this is in every new car.
But EV’s take it to a new level with shit you just can’t disable.
I have a car with some of this shit. Just had to disconnect the cell antenna and attach a dummy to block it. Try that with an EV and it’ll probably have a heart attack.
How is that a “meh”? Don’t buy that nonsense. Show the automakers that we’re more willing to drive rust buckets than accept that new tracking nonsense.
It’s one of the big issues giving me pause on replacing our cars. I can either buy something a few years old and probably avoid it (need to do research), or I can get an EV and learn how to disable it.
I share your sentiment but I’m aware that I’m very weird and most people don’t care about most of it.
Same. I wish more people shared some of my weird values (but not all of them).
If you’re looking for a 10,000 pound vehicle, and are not one of a very small percentage that needs it, you have other problems. Yes, EVs are too heavy, but think like 20% heavier that on comparable, it’s not that bad. It’s only excessively huge inefficient trucks that are that heavy. My mid-sized SUV EV is a 4,000 pound explosive, thank you very much.
One of the benefits, if you’re able to install a home charger, is to never really have to think about refueling. Think of it like charging a phone and just get into the habit of charging over night. I need to recharge a couple hours per week, but I never have to go anywhere. When I get home, if the car is below 50%, I plug in. Then It’s always just ready to go without me ever waiting or going anywhere. So much more convenient than gas stations. Granted road trips aren’t as convenient but they’re also not as bad as people fear
If my - or any other - complex had charging stations, I’d consider it. The most I’d ever be able to get is a hybrid, if I wasn’t so dirt-ass poor that an old and busted used car was the best that I could afford, because I’m disabled and live in friggin America.
The answer to questions like these is always money.
Money for infrastructure and money to buy the thing.
Because if you live in an apartment your only option for charging is to go to a charging location. You can’t just plug it in overnight.
Which I can see as a big hurdle for a lot of people.
Well, in some European countries you could load your car while at work or grocery shopping.
Depending in your commute this could just be enough.
Anyhow: the prices and (country-specific) loading network might be show stopper. Many other things are just habit and/or subjective convenience.
This was my biggest issue. I live in a townhouse with a carport-ish thingy, but the same issue applies.
Even Level 1 charging is pretty notable, means the vast majority of your daily miles still come from charging at home. This should be achievable if you have an outside plug and an outdoor extension cable.
Though, I suspect from your statement even that isn’t possible due to ownership issues.
I live in a suburb with a lot of one- and two-car garages, but mine is one of the few houses without cars parked in the driveway or on the street. My neighbors on one side converted their garage into a living space during COVID, and the ones on the other use it for storage of things other than cars.
So even with garages you need space in that garage to store your car, which is yet another hurdle.
There’s no reason to need a garage. Mine is full of kids crap so I never park there, and just had the charger installed on the exterior p of my garage where it’s convenient to my car in the driveway. They’re all weatherproof and it’s not like someone is going to spend hours in your driveway charging their car to steal a couple bucks of electricity. Or, at least for Tesla, every car has a unique identifier, so you can configure a white list of allowed vehicles while blocking every phone else.
My son’s apartment had chargers.
I charged my EV overnight from an overhead garage door power socket in my apartment for years before I moved out. Never even needed public charging. Many people just don’t realize you can charge from a normal household outlet
I’ve never had an apartment with a garage. At minimum I’d have needed a 100 ft extension cord. Probably longer, which means it’d have to be thicker. Which means more expensive.
And I’m not sure about your apartments but at mine (and many others in my area) we can’t have anything hanging out of our windows unless it’s an AC
If I tried an extension cord it’d be a violation of my lease
IDK either, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Last place I was at they didn’t like that I removed their blinds. Not like I tossed them, but theirs sucked ass and I use blackout curtains anyway.
Had the same problem at my apartment, my workaround was putting the blinds back and putting my blackout curtains behind the blinds (because putting them between the blinds and the window made them upset too)
At least my apartment is wired mostly properly. Still have things on breakers that don’t make sense though.
That’s also what I did. It was just stupid and more difficult. Cause it was the blinds to the patio door.
Near all apartments around me have exclusively open-air parking, so this isn’t a viable solution for many. It’s not that the available power is inadequate, it’s non-existent.
Y’all really need to go about asking your landlord to install chargers. There are even options where it charges you for power so he’s not out the cost
They’ll probably ignore the request, but at this point it’s progress to plant the seed, give them the idea, show them interest is building. Your future self will thank you
The condo my ex lives in just had a board meeting about installing chargers. It seemed like a reasonable cost and they haven’t rejected it, so it’s possible
What percentage of people live in apartments?
Surely those people should be taking public transport anyway not buying a car when they live downtown.
The better question here is what percentage of likely EV buyers live in apartments. People that would be a potential customer if it weren’t for living in an apartment.
Depends what the point is. If we want to sell EVs for some goal of selling EVs that fine I guess. But it still goes back to the point of you start with the easiest 80% first.
But if we want to improve everyone’s life on this planet and the planet itself. Trying to convince people who shouldn’t own a car to buy an EV is very poor planning. It just so short sighted and consumerist for the sake of consumerism.
An enormous percentage, especially in the current housing market, however…
Many (most?) American cities have wildly inadequate public transit and are prone to sprawl. Many Americans live in apartments, but are a multiple mile walk from their grocery store. If there’s any public transit at all it’s probably an infrequent and unreliable bus line that may not go anywhere near their home to begin with. They live in apartments, but are not anywhere near ‘downtown’.
These are problems that need to be solved, and quickly, but public transit is best grown with a city, which didn’t happen. Inserting a subway after the fact is difficult, expensive, and slow.
The reality of right-now (which is all a renter is likely to be able to consider financially) is that a reliable car is an essential item in most parts of the country.
According to Quota its ~80% of people live in houses.
Classic 80:20 rule. Making excuses for why the most difficult 20% doesn’t work is the wrong way of thinking about it. Most of the result for least effort cones from dealing with the 80%.
Great, and I’m sure the same applies to public chargers, for those making the excuse that there aren’t any near them.
Yes, we need a lot more public chargers, especially to make charging convenient, but there really are some near most of the population
You explicitly asked about apartments tho
The title is about why “Americans” aren’t buying EV’s. The excuse of them living in an apartment only applies to ~20% of the population.
That’s not enough to explain why Americans aren’t buying, just why 20% if Americans aren’t.
And like I said you don’t start with the most difficult and you don’t push a solution onto a problem when it isn’t the right solution anyway.
You realize not all apartments are located in big cities? Plenty of people live in small towns with no or shitty public transportation.
I live in an apartment and just charge it once a week for 30 min while I do my grocery shopping. Ezpz. I’ve been doing this for 3 years and have never had a problem.
I’ve had an EV for four years now and I’ve relied exclusively on public charging. I won’t say it’s never been without any annoyances but overall it was pretty unproblematic. It can absolutely be done if you want it. Recently they installed chargers at my workplace so now I’m fine and dandy.
I want a super cheap EV for 15k-20k to drive around the city, but I’m not ready to give up my gas jeep.
The cheapest EV I can seem to find is about 45k CAD new, looks stupid, and comes with a ton of features I don’t want that will just break and need repair…
I feel like Jeep owners will be the last to go EV: the car is so unique in appearance, customizable, and functionality. And it’s not like Jeep owners are looking for efficiency.
Some of Cybertruck’s announced capabilities might have bit into that market, if they’re able to deliver them eventually
No one’s mentioned the privacy nightmare that new vehicles are. Why anyone would pay $45k for a vehicle that spies on you for the sole benefit of car manufacturers and insurance companies is beyond me. Do away with all the unnecessary privacy violations, or pay ME a monthly subscription for MY data.
This is not specific to EVs, but is most cars from the last decade or two
Yep, this is the reason I won’t get an EV or any modern car. Probably gonna be driving 2016 cars or older the rest of my life.
I am uncomfortable with this as a permanent solution because new cars of today are old cars of tomorrow. Apparently at least in some vehicles, the telematics module is possible to remove with loss of some functionality - seen some videos and posts on that. I think we need an iFixit-like database comparing vehicles on that front - how easy is the unit to remove and what functions it affects. To be fair, the ones I’ve seen were on newer gas vehicles, so idk if EVs usually have that integrated tighter.
Yeah it’s not my ideal solution either, but I don’t see modern cars getting any better on privacy. If some manufacturer made a stripped down, privacy preserving car I’d be all about it.
I don’t see them getting better either - so at least I, maybe because I am not educated enough, think the solution is also in learning to rip out the privacy invasions rather than waiting for regulation or privacy-conscious models.
The problem is they integrate that shit with the functions you do want like the radio and AC and then make you operate it all through a god damn touchscreen so that if you get on the highway before you realize you forgot to turn the shitty lane assist off you now have to take your life in your hands to disable it or risk it ramming you into that ladder or pothole or something because it doesn’t want you to change lanes abruptly.
I mean the cell modem specifically. But yea, the touchscreens are also a problem.
A used car that has physical gauges and knobs that’s $5000 + $1500 in preventive maintenance can actually make a decent vehicle. Plus doing the maintenance yourself can teach you a lot about working on cars.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Washington has set out an industrial policy that hits Chinese manufacturers of cars, batteries and other components with punitive tariffs and restricts federal tax incentives for consumers buying their products.
The administration is attempting to reconcile its industrial and climate policies by offering tax incentives to consumers to buy EVs and by encouraging manufacturers to develop US-dominated supply chains.
According to data analyzed by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), a Washington think-tank, US-based carmakers have been importing a growing share of their batteries from China.
Ilaria Mazzocco, chair in Chinese business and economics at CSIS, says the reduced competition and rising cost of imported battery components could delay price decreases for US consumers.
Bozzella says that even with the tariff protection measures and US subsidies in place, he was unsure how long it would take for the US auto industry to produce EVs that could compete with heavily subsidized Chinese vehicles on pricing.
Van Jackson, previously an official in the Obama administration and now a senior lecturer in international relations at Victoria University of Wellington in New Zealand, says electric cars still need to fall in price if the market is to grow substantially.
The original article contains 2,252 words, the summary contains 197 words. Saved 91%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I’ve never even driven an EV, they’re comically far out of my price range.
All of them are expensive, and almost all of them are ugly as fuck. And the ones that I would consider even decent looking enough to drive are even more expensive than the others.
Would you buy one if they were more affordable? Personal experience I agree they are quite a lot of money to get behind the wheel of.
While we have plenty of gas stations to fill up with home charging can be another hurdle that’s costly or impossible depending on the living situation.
I sure would. I’m not one of those people who scoffs at modern cars.
Environmental reasons aside, they tend to have lots of bells and whistles that cars like my 20 year old Toyota doesn’t have. Parking sensors, better climate control, a multimedia system, etc.
I like my car but I’d swap it for an EV without a second thought if it was possible!
Price, range, infrastructure, in roughly that order of importance when averaged over the population. The article then goes into factors affecting price. (Of course, the article originated with the Financial Times and was only reprinted by Ars, so it makes sense that they would put money first.)
Exactly.
I’m willing to get a commuter EV, but almost everything either has too little range (e.g. older Leafs) or too much range that drives up the cost. I’m not willing to spend $30k+ on something that can really only be a commuter.
EVs don’t have the range to replace our family car since we do road trips, and anything with enough storage is already way more than a reasonable hybrid. Add to that high electricity rates at charging stations, and I’m just not interested.
So, make an affordable EV ($20k, ideally less) with 150-200 miles range, and I’ll buy it. I’m looking at used Bolts, which seem to be ~$15k after the credit for used. There really should be something new in this category though…
That’s what I’ve been saying for the last several years: give me a good commuter EV to replace my more commuter ICE. I still think two car households in single family homes are the ideal market, but i divorced my second car and spent a little more in the EV that can get me places. So far so good with road trips up to 3 hours, but we’ll see this summer with bigger road trips
Yeah, we regularly do 10+ hour road trips (10 to inlaws, 14 to my parents), and I think an EV would push those to 2 days. We take breaks for food every 300-400 miles (4-5 hours), so that’s my range expectation between refuels (we’ll sometimes refuel gas sooner if someone needs to pee). We usually eat in the car, but we could stop for 20-30 min once or twice without impacting much.
We occasionally do 2-3 hour trips (visit cousins, national parks), but it’s usually short trips or very long trips. So a small EV + larger hybrid is our current ideal, but we currently have a small hybrid + larger ICE (looking to replace both).
Current EVs seem to be trying to replace our family car, when they should be replacing my commuter, at least until battery tech improves. The Leaf and Bolt are options, but they’re kinda pricey new (used are looking very attractive).
For me, the last time I was in the market for a replacement vehicle, the 2 biggest factors were availability and price.
The dealers had zero stock (except maybe a rare fully optioned ridiculously priced example of the top of the line model), and I was not in a position to wait 2+ months for a factory order of a car that I couldn’t even test drive.
