cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/18475086
I’m not against those who work for sex, but the idea to earn for a living doesn’t seem nice. IMO, sex should be for 2 people (or more for others who prefer polyamory) who wants to be intimate/romantic with each other. My point is money should not be the purpose.
Edit3: improved wording a bit, and added info below; forgot to add this edit
Legalize and regulate.
I share this view with other issues our society faces as well.
Edit: forgot why.
Why:
Sex work as well as drugs will never be outlawed or enforced fully; looking at drugs, it is used as an excuse to jail the working class for slave labor as well as other things when you follow the money.[1]
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.[2]
[1] The Wire - Daniels Follows the Money | 01:34 | https://youtu.be/9PaBt441FBQ ↩︎
[2] https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-13/ ↩︎
I don’t believe that my approval or anyone else’s is at all relevant.
My position is that there’s only one person who has the right to decide whether or not it’s acceptable to trade sex for money, and that’s the person entering into the trade. Assuming that all other contractual requirements are met - they’re of legal age and acting of their own free will and so on - it’s just as much their right to trade sex for money as to trade ditch digging or code writing or coffee brewing or meeting taking for money.
(edited for clarity)
I don’t approve of work.
based
At this point I’m thinking we should legalize prostitution and criminalize dating.
Dating these days is what prostitution would be if it was published by EA. They added gambling mechanics and season passes.
You do know you don’t need a dating app for dating, right?
Who said anything about apps?
I probably misunderstood you. What did you mean by “They added gambling mechanics and season passes.”?
Okay, let’s put it this way:
Head out to Nevada, walk into one of the brothels they got outside Las Vegas. “One sex act, please.” “That will be number of dollars.” “Here is that number of dollars.” “Here is your sex act, and your receipt.” “Thank you, have a nice day.”
Meanwhile, go wherever it is you think you can meet women. Avoid female coworkers. Meet a girl at a bar and she actually gives you her number, what’s the chance she ghosts you after 5 or 6 of the expensive dinner dates she demands you take her on?
I reiterate, dating is like prostitution as published by EA.
Losers of the world unite! All women must be trafficked!
I don’t think this is how dating works. What you describe is just looking for a quick sexual partner, for which prostitution can be more suitable. Dating is about relationships not just about sex, right? You won’t get that by taking a number from a random girl in a bar. The easiest way for dating is to make friends first, a nice friend group or two with both men and women, based on shared interests, compatible personalities… Friend groups allow for meeting more people of your kind (friends of friends) and create a prefiltered pool of people where it’s much easier to find a partner for a serious relationship. Quite different from prostitution.
I don’t think this is how dating works.
lmao, you are so close to understanding what is being said to you, yet clearly so far away…
Ok, so if I’m close, why don’t you explain instead of lyao.
sounds like a you problem… banning it for everyone else is not the answer
Sounds like you need to date better women.
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Prostitution is legal here. Where are you?
The majority of the United States.
A very small portion of the world
casually glances around the third largest nation on earth yeah. So tiny.
im a believer in victimless crimes legalization but I do think it should come with big regulation and not just to collect taxes. Advertising should be restricted to the adult establishments (in other words they should all only be able to advertise at their own places so no billboards on the road but walk into a liquor store and it will be all over once your inside). health and safety should be paramount (both johns and hookers should be regularly tested. hookers monthly and doctors should be able to give one a card to say they show no stds after testing on such and such a date you can get once a year). There should be regulation that establishments cannot have over a 20% and can’t charge anything additional if they do take a cut.
I’ll kinda take a different approach since everyone’s covered the basics with sex work. The problem with how you’ve presented it, is you’re defining an act on how you perceive and want to regulate it. The simple question becomes, “should people have bodily autonomy?”
Everyone has a different opinion on what can be considered intimate/romantic. Some people feel a full body massage is too intimate, others a dinner with a co-worker is too romantic (not agreeing, just throwing out examples). If we start regulating based on how someone feels something should be perceived than it’s a slippery slope. I can fully understand that you believe sex to be romantic while also realizing that others don’t feel the same way or view it as a positive aspect of it. If it’s not being forced on you then it shouldn’t be a problem what consenting adults do in privacy.
Great point, thanks for bringing it up
Absolutely because then we can start talking about protecting and helping the sex workers that need help, and give them a chance to work in a safe environment.
Sex worker have been a thing since at least when we invented writings and still going strong today.
Might be time to give sex workers the dignity and respect they deserve.
Sex worker have been a thing since at least when we invented writings and still going strong today.
I’m pretty sure it was a thing before writing, there was just nobody to write about it.
I know, but we have at least some writings to prove that it happened back then. But sex workers probably exist since the dawn of humanity in a form or another.
It seems like you answered the question “should it be legal”, not “do you approve of it”.
I could technically disapprove of something and still want it to be legalized, but you normally approve what you want to legalize.
But to be clear, I approve of sex workers because to me, it is a job like any other. But since we built society on puritan values, they get a bad reputation and a terrible work situation.
I could technically disapprove of something and still want it to be legalized, but you normally approve what you want to legalize
A very enlightened and humble attitude. I commend you.
If it is strictly voluntary, it is a work If it is forced for any reason, obviously not.
honestly if my body was anything else, I would try an OF or similar.
Sex work is work, and work (tying your capacity for labor to your continued survival) is bad. Sex workers should be supported like any member of the proletariat
Sex labor on the other hand? Sure as long as you have removed the exploitive element that comes with work.
Can you elaborate on the work vs labor dichotomy?
I’m not familiar with the concept, especially because in my language the two would be almost exact synonyms in this context (unless you are Hercules or what not). And Latin languages just get the one.
Labor is when you do a thing that has value to society.
Work is like, a job, where you do labor (or not) and that pays you so that you can spend money to sustain your existence. If you get disabled you can be fired and not have money long term to continue existing.
People, ironically enough, are more efficient laborers when they aren’t doing it in the trappings of work, so there isn’t any reason for work to exist.
Are you the only person using that definition?
Because traditionally English speaking Marxists use them the other way around, as far as I remember, (work is useful, produces use value, labor is economic, produces economic value) if they make that distinction at all.
See for example:
(Posted without endorsement)
EDIT
Apparently the English edition includes a footnote by Friedrich Engels:
As has been stated in a previous note, the English language has two different expressions for these two different aspects of labour: in the Simple Labour-process, the process of producing Use-Values, it is *Work; *in the process of creation of Value, it is *Labour, *taking the term in its strictly economic sense. — F. E.
Which reads very much like you are using them wrong.
They are not the only person who uses the words for each other. When I was doing my undergrad I found that myself and my fellow students used them pretty loosely goosey. As a native English speaker I’ve never had any difficulty telling which way a speaker intended labor and work to mean. The context provided enough. I can see how for people who are not native English speakers, but this isn’t an academic institution. In casual conversation either or are appropriate.
This isn’t in the context of utility value vs exchange value. This is separating value creation from the mode of production. Work as in workplace not work as in physical process
Be that as it may, your ad hoc definition in your first comment was spurious and finds no basis in English language Marxist literature.
Can you phrase this as constructive criticism for which are the proper words to use in this seperate use case or do I need to refer you to the constructive criticism handbook?
Also, establishing working definitions for use in casual conversation is a thing. Please note that I established definitions for their use.
Sex work is a more respectable career than debt collector, or CEO.
Exactly. Perfect example of labor owning the means of production.
Or president
Absolutely, as long as there is safety and security for all parties involved. Consent must be obeyed by clients and both the clients and employees should be required to supply current STD screens as well as having a safe location for the work.
I approve of sex work, but I don’t approve of the abusive madams and pimps of the world. Usually, they are the problem. Protection should come in a different way.
I think whether anyone approves of it or not is really irrelevant. People have bought and sold sex for thousands of years and will continue to do so.
The only questions is whether you think the sex trade should be illegal or stigmatised. My personal opinion is that criminalising sex work is a fools errand and that it’s no ones business if two consenting adults want to trade money for sex.
I think a great example is OnlyFans. Pornography is close to full sex work, so it’s a fair comparison. Here was a field that was dominated by predatory companies and people in the worst places. Actors and Actresses frequently talked about how they were abused, pushed beyond what they thought was acceptable, underpaid, hurt, raped, and honestly still worse.
Enter OnlyFans, a more legitimate way for workers to create their own content, their own pricing, set their own rules and their own boundaries. By legitimizing pornography and pornographic actors it made the entire thing safer for the workers themselves.
It’s natural that sex work would follow this. It’s wildly known that sex work is not a safe business, and it’s extremely predatory. Taking our opinions out of it completely, if the options are A) let the extremely terrible and predatory underground business continue as it has or B) legitimize the business, add protections, and allow them to set their own rules - well then, isn’t the moral option obvious?
Pornography is
close tofull sex workFTFY
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