My thoughts is that it’s a simple situation really. If they’re harassing or assaulting people, the women will call the cops or something, simple situation and get the guy arrested. If he’s not doing anything, it’s nothing harmful. Apparently that’s not a solid enough answer. What should I have said?

  • Talaraine@fedia.io
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    2 hours ago

    I’d say the best answer to this conservative is that it’s like open carrying a handgun. Just because someone is carrying a handgun doesn’t make them the bad guy, so you leave them alone.

    But if they draw that weapon and threaten someone, you call the cops.

    …or another good guy with a gun?

  • Icalasari@fedia.io
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    1 hour ago

    “Counter question: What stops a creep from doing that even if there was an anti trans law?”

  • Che Banana@beehaw.org
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    Uhhhhh there are no urinals in the ladies so everyone is in a stall? So???

    Does this fella want the ladies to shoot him?

    (Using the ladylike Darringer from her pocket book, saying “ah do declare” of course)

  • TheSlad@sh.itjust.works
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    19 minutes ago

    What public bathroom has dedicated security gaurds? Theres nothing stopping a man from just walking in without having to make stuff up. If someone is acting inappropriate in a public restroom then why does it matter whats in their pants? Gay/lesbian perverts exist too!

  • j4k3@lemmy.world
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    Not saying I have the answers, but I typically attack the person’s desire for oversimplification and binary stupidity. Like, “Do you feel like this question encompasses all bathroom related issues?” It gives me the time to think, while also assessing their vulnerabilities from an unexpected redirection. I ultimately attack their confidence in forming questions by adding edge case exceptions to their simplified outlook.

    When someone poses a question like this, the are telling you that they lack depth. They do not have a good grasp of scales or complexity. They also lack the self awareness required to effectively empathize with others. This is a vulnerability that they have exposed. By exploiting this vulnerability, you invalidate their argument, take control of the rhetoric, and you increase the chance that their insecurity motivates growth of their self awareness at some later point.

  • zoostation@lemmy.world
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    3 hours ago

    Is there a magical barrier that keeps men who don’t say they’re trans from entering women’s bathrooms?

    • tonyn@lemmy.ml
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      The social contract, and the knowledge that it isn’t acceptable and any women inside would likely scream and the man would be perceived as an attempted rapist and would face consequences.

      • rand_alpha19@moist.catsweat.com
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        So, no. I don’t think a rapist cares much if they’re perceived as a rapist. And a lot of (maybe most?) rapists know that they probably won’t be convicted even if caught.

      • zoostation@lemmy.world
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        So the woman won’t scream if a fake trans rapist starts raping them? The justice system won’t prosecute an accused fake trans rapist because there’s a newer social contract?

      • TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 hour ago

        The social contract

        and the knowledge that it isn’t acceptable

        Rapists, well known followers of social contract who only do things that are acceptable…

        It’s not concerning at all that this didn’t seem immensely silly and wrong when you typed it…

        and any women inside would likely scream

        Because if a bathroom allows trans women, women will then be unable to scream while facing an attempted rape?

        the man would be perceived as an attempted rapist and would face consequences.

        Are you advocating that any man who even accidentally enters a woman’s restroom startling a woman be declared an attempted rapists?

        Otherwise, they will be considered an attempted rapist whether trans and allowed in the bathroom or not…when they start doing the attempted rape…

      • ValiantDust@feddit.org
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        In my experience what happens is you look at each other confusedly for a moment, wondering who is in the wrong restroom. Then you realise there are no urinals so it’s probably the women’s restroom. Then the man leaves a bit embarrassed. Source: Happened to me at least twice (once the signs were really unclear).

    • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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      Yeah, this is probably the right way to go. There’s actually no bathroom police, for most people. It’s an issue in the first place because when someone is trans people will deputise themselves just to harass them.

    • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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      It’s quite interesting to see them make this argument while also claiming that gun control laws can’t possibly work because criminals won’t abide by them.

      • otp@sh.itjust.works
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        I guess we need to allow everyone to use any washroom because we need a good man in the women’s washroom to be around to save the women from a bad man in the women’s washroom

  • molave@reddthat.com
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    3 hours ago

    You’ve said your opinion. The asker asked. They got their answer. End of story.

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    Nothing.

    Nothing is good enough. Gendered bathrooms are about repression. That’s why they are so mad about non-gendered toilets that are popping up.

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      This has always confused me for years since this “debate” became part of public dialog.

      Why don’t we just have all non-gender bathrooms? A friend of mine used to live in an apartment building where the common area had 4 non-gendered bathrooms.

      Each had a fold-out changing table, a single toilet, and a sink, so everybody was accommodated. Men, women, non-binary, trans folks, a parent with their baby or young child, and disabled people because the door was wide enough for a wheelchair and the toilets had support bars next to them.

      Fully inclusive to everybody, and nicer than the typical restrooms because they were totally private.

    • metaStatic@kbin.earth
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      Gendered bathrooms where a godsend for women.

      There was a time women couldn’t travel far from their home bathroom. it was called the lavatory leash.

      The current problem is bigots and “communal” toilets (in that order), not gendered toilets.

        • Mubelotix@jlai.lu
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          It would be cheaper to build actual walls in restrooms than to double their size systematically

      • Zak@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        When I try to recall the few non-gendered public bathrooms I’ve been in, they all had private stalls with real doors. It was nice. I’d be happy if all public bathrooms were like that.

      • troed@fedia.io
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        Yes. A room with a bunch of stalls and sinks.

        European type stalls that is, floor to ceiling, real doors.

      • mangaskahn@lemmy.world
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        I don’t have gendered restrooms in my house and people seem to navigate those just fine. I feel like it would work for public restrooms too.

      • RagnarokOnline@programming.dev
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        I’ve only been in a couple non-gendered communal bathrooms and it was a little odd, but only because I wasn’t used to it. The actual mechanics of it were basically the same as a normal bathroom. Go into a stall and do your business then come out and wash your mitts.

        I don’t have a problem with it being the standard. I guess I wouldn’t think it would be a good idea for high schoolers because they’re always in heat.

        • shapesandstuff@feddit.org
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          Thats the thing right. You dont care whos shitting in the stall next to you. You’re busy shitting.

          This is (should be) true for any public bathrooms, no matter the sign on the door.

        • /home/pineapplelover@lemm.eeOP
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          I actually prefer men and women separate restrooms because using the urinals is faster than going in to stalls, which reduces the wait time a bit. Then again, if you have two non gendered restrooms, you’ll get double throughput. Also, it would take a while to get adjusted to seeing both genders in the same restrooms, maybe I’m overthinking it, I’ve heard a university near me has non gendered restrooms only and the students are still adjusting to it.

          Apologies if I’m rambling.

  • LalSalaamComrade@lemmy.ml
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    That’s a false dichotomy. Perverts of any gender and inclination can do harmful stuff anywhere. In an idealistic world, a bathroom shouldn’t have to be gendered, because all that you’re doing is relieving yourself - I mean, look at your own homes first. Putting the gender-neutral stuff aside, this isn’t about trans-women, this is about men who are perverts. Even if things such as cross-dressing, gender-changing surgeries or trans-women were non-existent/erased in a hypothetical world, these perverts will find other ways to violate or harass women.

  • morgan423@lemmy.world
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    Why are conservatives so worried about hypothetical scenarios involving gendering re: restrooms?

    It’s come up exactly zero times ever in my entire lifespan, and I’m in my mid 40s now and have been in hundreds, if not thousands, of public restrooms.

    • bizarroland@fedia.io
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      I am a straight guy and I have used a woman’s restroom.

      But only in the context that it was a single restroom and the men’s was occupied. I just unilaterally executed my male privilege and declared that the woman’s restroom was unisex for the time period that I needed it.

      There was nobody else in the room and if there had been first the door would have been locked or I would have been absolutely mortified.

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        This was super common in college dorms as well. The etiquette was that if your hookup or friend was using the bathroom on your floor you were supposed to stand outside and let people know about it. You know, informed consent and all. Absolutely zero people ever gave a shit.

        The entire fear kind of makes me assume that all conservatives are just opportunistic rapists who are kept in check my the thinnest veneer of social order.

        • asret@lemmy.zip
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          Are single-sex dorms a thing over there? Ours were always mixed with unisex bathrooms - stalls for everyone.

    • socsa@piefed.social
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      I have actually used a restroom many times when someone of the “wrong” gender was cleaning it. It turns out that person did not try to get an angle to scope out my junk, or molest me or whatever these people believe is going to happen. If someone did that, I would pretty much react exactly the same regardless of their gender. I’d be like “bro what the fuck no free previews.”

  • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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    You made a mistake.

    You engaged with someone that wasn’t asking in good faith. The idea itself is so stupid that snagging engaging with it isn’t worth the time and effort.

    The only useful response to that question is “are you really that stupid, or do you think I am?”

  • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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    ask them what happens when a guy walks into a women’s restroom and says they’re a trans-man but is lying and isn’t actually trans?

  • Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
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    31 minutes ago

    The time for debating conservatives was over a decade ago. Now is not the time for debate. Now is the time to dethrone them. Marginalize hate by marginalizing the haters.