“We should do a post mortem but first, fuck you specifically AOC.”
Funny that lemmy.world keeps whining about .ml types trying to get people not to vote when these fucking neoliberal ghouls are a better argument against it than anything they could ever say.
I vote Democrat because the other option is a Fascist, Democrats do this shit like breathing and it only makes me hate filling the bubble of “Not the open fascist party” party.
I’ve always wanted to ask how nice that sheriff was. I’ve read that he let you take visitors in his office and whatnot.
The election was an opportunity to keep the GOP out of power and enacting fascist rule. Doesn’t matter how awful the dems were they would never reach that level depravity. It was a total lost opportunity for anyone who did not support the Democrat candidate.
That said there is no cause that the DNC can have significant impact on moving forward. They failed at the one thing they were suppose to do. It’s a sunk cost, because we know they can’t consistently win or even win decisively. It’s so sick that every election for the last 10 years has been GOP favored. It doesn’t make any sense but here we are.
Fuck everything about Pelosi and her bullshit insider trading.
She’s not there to help Americans, she’s there to maximize her and her husbands investments.
“Blue no matter who” winds up like ghouls like this running the party, because they’ll never give up personal.power, and corrupt enough to sell out for campaign donations.
We have to have more standard than the letter by a name.
I don’t know much about her, but what little I do know, she’s the Democrat’s version of McConnell.
Nope, McTurtle got rich along the way. But his lifelong goal has been packing the courts.
He is literally salivating like he just walked into a salad bar at the 42 vacancies Biden is about to hand over.
Pelosi doesn’t give a shit about the Dem platform or helping people. She wants America to stay in the early 90s, that used to be enough to be considered somewhat progressive.
But the early 90s were 30 years ago. Imagine calling someone in the early 90s progressive because they wanted America to go back to pre civil rights movement.
That’s the same time frame.
The right move was forming a serious left third party decades ago. We’d have a right, center, and left party and nothing would get done without some compromise between the wings, likely leading to a more fluid party structure.
We’d never see this shit where a handful of republican extremists sabotage everything no matter who has the majority.
Nope, McTurtle got rich along the way. But his lifelong goal has been packing the courts.
He is literally salivating like he just walked into a salad bar at the 42 vacancies Biden is about to hand over.
Moscow Mitch is a politician, and a good one (in the sense of “good at manipulating political affairs”, not “a good person”). He’s a canny cunt, and that’s the most dangerous enemy you could come up with: one that knows what they’re doing.
No, a third party is non viable. But the right move would have been exactly what the crazy right wingers have done with the Republicans. Get organized and primary the fuck out of the people blocking things.
The “tea party” gave us the blueprint, but we’ve been too dumb and lazy to follow it. When they didn’t give us the public option with Obamacare, every primary since then should have been about cleaning house of the corporatist, establishment Democrats and replacing them with real progressives. But since we’re too lazy and dumb to vote in primaries in mass numbers, their establishment people keep sailing to victory.
Get organized and primary the fuck out of the people blocking things.
You’re ignoring primaries are rigged, the party can just ignore the results, and pro-corpo candidates take in an insane amount of bribes.
That system is only for Presidential Primaries. There’s a primary for most positions all the way down to dog catcher. Getting a partisan seat gives you a voice in the state party and possibly the national if your seat is high enough. Get enough Congressional seats and you control the special delegate swing in Presidential Primaries. Might they change that system as a progressive movement gets more seats? Sure, and they can have another riot outside their national convention too.
The very thing you call rigging is vulnerable to a tea party style primary challenge.
Correct. This is why there is essentially zero chance at political reform in this country without large scale violence. Granted, that violence will almost certainly be misdirected, but I think given the actual state of the system it truly is a forgone conclusion that we will see mass civil unrest within the next (~20) years.
Primaries are only rigged in that yes, the rules and the entire framework is built to benefit those currently in power, but that is less rigged than the general is against a third party, which is to say, totally, absolutely, and unassailably rigged. Proclaiming it impossible because it’s rigged is silly when you’re advocating for instead competing in one that is far, far more rigged and has far more structure to prevent any upsets.
We have never actually won a primary and had them ignore it. They use their structural advantages as much as they can, but if we push hard enough to overcome those advantages, they don’t just nullify the election and go with their candidate. We do get people like Ocasio-Cortez in there from time to time, when people actually show up to the primaries enough to flip it to the more progressive candidate. If we got enough candidates like her in, not just in congress but state houses and such too, we’d actually start getting places.
Now the bribes and money on the corporate side, nothing we can do about that - we have to overcome it so that we can get officials in place that will do something about it.
Now lemme put it this way. I live in bumfuck Ohio where there’s no chance of a progressive candidate being elected. But I still vote in every primary. People who live in places where there is more of a chance of doing something need to be as diligent as I am, if not more, damnit.
Decades ago, a group calling itself The New Party tried to eliminate the spoiler effect of third parties through the practice of electoral fusion, that is, allowing the same candidate to run and appear on the ballot under more than one political party. That way, they’d know where their support came from. But the Democratic Farm Labor Party (Minnesota’s Democratic Party organization) went to court to shut it down, offering the specious argument that it would confuse voters.
Would the corporatist, establishment Democrats allow an upstart progressive movement into its primaries?
The closer they hold primaries, the worse their voter turn out gets. It’s a double edged sword.
There is no realistic third party option in the US. The way the right solves this is by primarying out the centrists in favour of people more aligned with their views. Even before Trump there was the Tea Party takeover. I suspect this is the most viable path forward for US leftists too. If Pelosi had her way AOC wouldn’t even have a seat, so there’s proof enough there that the plan can work.
Be the change you want to see then. Make the viable third party that isn’t just a Russian troll op.
Because of course she is.
The “Lessor evil” party folks.
I mean… Yes. They are less evil. Way less evil. It’s not even close.
Pelosi is a giant piece of shit, but she doesn’t make the top 75% of conservatives.
Also AOC is a goddamn gem. Conservatives have previously zero of those.
Are Democrats anywhere near where I want to be? No. But I can’t see how anyone could say they’re the same.
There is a seemingly, almost intentional obtuseness to internal criticisms of the DNC from folks on the part of Democrats.
Fundamental to why the right has been able to organize a fascist takeover of this nation is actions like this from the Democratic party. Fascism in this country wouldn’t be ascendant if the DNC didn’t rat-fuck Bernie, twice. Health care CEO’s wouldn’t be getting gunned down in the street if the DNC forced M4A instead of the corporate sellout of Obamacare in 2016. Trump would not have won if Democrats had focused their efforts and spent their political capitol on issues that would make a fundamental difference in peoples lived experience in the period of 2021-2024. We wouldn’t be in this position if Democrats didn’t slow walk the prosecution of Donald Trump, effectively sitting on their hands until an election year to start taking action.
The state of this country is a direct consequence of the managerial class politics, which is all that the DNC has come to represent in a post 2024 world. They enable and empower the ratchet effect that allows the rightwing to become more and more fascist, because they are only ever willing to be a lessor evil.
IAWTP
They’re rich and using rich advisors from the corporate executive sector. Is it any wonder they act like they don’t care about the working class and don’t care if Trump wins? They probably don’t believe he will do half the stuff he says he’s going to do. They’re used to losing and making millions of dollars off GOP trickle down policies. Crying right into their bank accounts. This is why we need more people from the working class in Congress. Why we need to uncap the House of Representatives. If we let the House of Representatives float a ratio like we used to a couple things happen. One, we can have cheaper, smaller campaigns that aren’t off limits to the working class. Two, we can further reduce the cost of running for office by using telework stuff. Anything classified can be done in any government building or military base that has access to the government’s secure intranet. This isn’t 1940 anymore, there is no more argument for freezing the number the seats in Congress.
All of this
Can Pelosi just sit her big ass titties down and let us move on?
[indecipherable] you Nancy!
Oh, an old guy, super surprised. But yeah if you haven’t seen the other committee seat fights; there is a real fight going on right now for the future of the Democratic Party. The committee seats are probably the most outward expression of it.
No surprise there.
Establishment Democrats would rather have power held by Republicans than by progressive Democrats.
And AOC has been kowtowing to Pelosi for the last few years in hopes of going along to get along. Hopefully this will wake up progressive Democrats to realize they will never be accepted by corporate Democrats, no matter how much they move to the right to appease them.
AOC 2028.
I wish people would stop saying this. She would lose. I like her, but that doesn’t change the fact that she is not going to be president.
Do tell. Which dull advocate for an untenable status quo should we run instead?
I didn’t say AOC wasn’t the best person for the job, only that she won’t win. If I had a better answer, I would gladly offer it up. That said, I’ll keep voting as progressive as i can.
I’m not them and I’d happily campaign my ass off for AOC, but I expect Whitmer. Who I’d take over the likes of Shapiro or Newsom any day.
That’s what they would have said about Obama in 2004 if anyone knew his name back then…
AOC could, should, and hopefully will run
That would be awesome. If elected, she would be the first president younger than me. And since she’s undoubtedly smarter than I am, I’m cool with it.
It’s insane how fast they normalized geriatric candidates who both clearly had issues.
The only two presidents over 70 on inauguration day is trump at 70 and Biden at 78, now it’s gonna be trump at 78 again.
Bill was 46, Obama was 47, even GW was 54.
This is a very recent development and everyone’s already acting like anything under 85 is fine
It’s fucking insane to me. Just a complete rejection of reality
This was practically a different country in 2004/2008 and let’s not pretend Obama and AOC are close on the political spectrum.
You could almost say that after 20 years the standard of progressive changed?
Dont tell Pelosi or Biden, they still thinking the standard isn’t open racism, because that’s what it was in the 60s.
But yes, AOC is more progressive in 2024 than Obama in 2004.
But so is fucking society.
If you want the Dem party in 2024 to be the same it was in 2004, that’s like if in 2004 you wanted 1984.
If that’s what you want, go be a conservative and drag them to the middle.
Stop fighting progress because you don’t want it that far. The bigger danger is going too far right. So for fucks sake be honest about your political identity and go moderate the Republican party instead of ruining the only other option.
There are a whole lot of assumptions in this comment. I don’t want a less progressive candidate than AOC. I want a more progressive candidate, but I want one who is going to win. A woman, POC, New Yorker isn’t it, as much as I wish it was.
I also don’t agree that society is more progressive since Obama’s presidency. More tolerant of certain things, sure. But more likely to vote for progressive economic policies? I don’t think so.
As the boomers and older Gen X start to die off, things will slide left. But AOC 2028? Give me a break.
But more likely to vote for progressive economic policies? I don’t think so.
So, that’s your opinion…
That says 5 out of the top 6 policy positions are progressive economic policy…
All over 60% support.
So like, you’re entitled to your opinion, but statistical analysis is still a science and I’m going with science this time.
What people care about is not always what they vote for, and what people say they care about is another thing entirely.
I’ll leave you with this: I want to be proved wrong and champagne is on me if I am. I just don’t believe in Americans enough to believe that we as a whole are going to effect real change.
I’m going to stop trying, though.
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She’s a real feisty one who’s only willing to go so far into being “corporate.” With the inevitable loss of Bernie, she will become the most recognized face of progressives in Congress. Her sharp tongue and wit, combined with an excellent ability to get her points made succinctly would serve her well in any attempt to run. She’s more lively and personable than Harris ever was.
I’d say she has an excellent shot at the White House if she so chooses.
Conventional logic also said Trump would loose but here we are.
Why would she lose?
The normies would project whatever fantasy they want onto her, and she’s hot so it could be positive delusions.
She’s also brown, a liberal, and from New York. Even if she had the cure for cancer White America would rather crucify themselves than let her become president.
See, this is why I don’t buy the “Harris lost because she’s a woman of color” crap. Centrists don’t want to admit that moving to the right has hit a wall, and it has the added bonus of being an excuse to shut out AOC.
She didn’t, we know why she lost. The number one issue in polling was the economy and she didn’t convince people she was better on the issue. It turns out that saying nothing will change while homelessness is at a record high (since the Great Depression), and groceries have double or tripled in prices in a couple years is not a winning message with the working class.
Well, now we’ll all get to find out what happens when someone fucks it up as hard as possible instead of just doing nothing.
Why would she lose?
I mean, there is no way she would get through the primaries. The party would disband before running a progressive for president.
Everyone says that can’t happen until it happens. We’re getting very close to the era of millennial dominance
Remember, the Democrats lost to Trump on purpose.
I don’t think it was purpose, but they sure aren’t showing much effort. They’re used to living comfortable lives no matter who wins.
Nah, that’s a load of bs. The Democrats lost to Trump due to deep internal corruption and incompetence.
When will the Democrats have a new leader? To then get rid of this idiot.
She’s not even the leader anymore (that’s Hakeem Jeffries) she’s doing this just because she’s a ghoul.
I mean, she no longer holds the title of House Speaker, but the idea that Jeffries is the leader is a joke. After Harris lost, NYT was interviewing Pelosi, not Jeffries. She didn’t let Jeffries take over because she was abdicating power; she was deflecting criticism.
There are leaders and there are Leaders, there’s also party positions wholly outside of Congress. The Minority or Majority Speaker in Congress is not necessarily the leader of the party.
Why the fuck won’t that old bitch just get the fuck out? Her and Feinstein, two fucking peas in a pod. Dragging the entire democratic party down into the dumpster fire that it has become.
Pelosi is as bad as Mitch. These corporate backed dinosaurs have no business representing the people.
Oh, Pelosi bad…
Ever stop to think that she may owe political favor to AOC’s competitor? The democrats hold elections for chairs, and there is lots of this.
Nevermind…
Pelosi bad…
How are you so consistently on the wrong side of every issue? Are you like a staffer for a conservative Democrat or something?
No. Just a realist in an unreal world.
If you’re a realist then you would know every chair in the House of Representatives is up for grabs every 2 years.
Tis true. But, I was talking about committee chairs
Every Chair.
16 committee chairs are chosen every congress. The Republican caucus leaders choose theirs. The democratic caucus elects theirs, with the Dem leader playing a large role in aligning per senority. This year, Jeffries has decided to stay out of it giving the opportunity for younger congresspeople to take additional responsibilities. So essentially there is an internal campaign going on right now and the caucus will vote later. It has nothing to do with the election for the representative in the first place.
I didn’t say it did. But that happens every 2 years for sure. Nobody is guaranteed their seat, in their district or their committee.
Some Dems are so cynical they do things they don’t believe in because they believe it works.
You can say that about a lot of people, not only dems. It’s like saying all repubs move like a herd while doing and saying what they think is popular
We can say a lot of people are cynical like that, but we can also say even more people are turned off by that cynicism.
Kind of irrelevant what her reasoning is. It’s a bad and stupid move politically. People are frustrated with the dems and are disengaging. They need change in leadership if they want to remain relevant. Pelosi and her ilk are out of touch and will run the country into the ground if they don’t step aside.
AOCs competitor is very well liked, even by AOC, and the caucus is roughly cut in half. It’s a vote, let’s see what happens. Pelosi gave up the leader role, but that doesn’t mean every chair is up for grabs.
Regardless of this action, Pelosi is bad.
you’re not wrong, but you said it in a really fucked up and retarded way.
So your defense of Nancy Pelosi is that she might be corrupt and screwing over AOC as quid pro quo? That’s meant to make us feel better?
My defense,if you can call it that, is that she’s paying back a political favor to Gerry Collins who is running against AOC. That is the way the House and political favors work. You may not like it, but I assure you AOC does it to.
Write better.
Remember, Pelosi has a net worth over $200mil.
“It’s a big club, and she’s in it.”
Pelosi fucking sucks. AOC for pres.
I hope that someday we live in a world where that can happen.
Maybe if she gets a few felonies.
Hey, here’s a thought. You know about the guy that shot a parasite in NY? AOC could try that too. She’d need enough vocal (and armed) popular support to avoid conviction (and retaliatory assassination) and it might turn into a civil war, but it might also work.
you are playing into eurasias plan wtih a civil war.
Ideally, the support would be so overwhelming that it doesn’t come to actual protracted violent conflict. But if the alternative is an erosion of civil rights by a greedy oligarchy, I have little faith that they’d actually oppose “eurasias plan” either, so it doesn’t seem like there’s much to lose here.
you mean the oligarchs that exist in Russia today?
Sure, if that’s what you want to look at for comparison, though America has plenty of its own (as do other nations). Pretty sure extreme wealth knows no allegiance but to itself. Nations are pawns to them, nationality a way to draw lines, nationalism a way to make people fight over those lines instead of fighting the vampires making bank off of that conflict.
Whether you’ll end up under Russian exploitation, American exploitation, European exploitation, Chinese exploitation or literally any other oligarchy you could come up with doesn’t really matter.
Better to fight for a chance at freedom than fall for the deception that a particular flag makes one parasite better than the other. And if it should come to violence, maybe it will at least train a force of veteran resistance fighters if the eurasian powers come knocking. We’ve got a live demonstration of how a motivated resistance can give an imperialist invader a hard time.
War is a waste of lives and resources and regrettable in any circumstance. I hope that changes for the better can happen without resulting in bloodshed and destruction. I hope for a better, happier, more prosperous future for all of us.
Too late, we’re already in it and pretending it hasn’t happened yet.
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https://apnews.com/article/business-nancy-pelosi-congress-8685e82eb6d6e5b42413417f3d5d6775
We have no left party in the United States, merely an economically right-wing party to the left of a fascist party, with a few left-wing spoilers like AOC and Sanders that they despise far more than their fascist opposition party, because while Democrats and Republicans rage over social policy, often the symptoms of economic desperation, they drink from the same Wall Street gravy train and take the same orders on economic policy.
A party actually attempting to reorient our economy based on the needs and priorities of the citizens of our society would be catastrophic to their legalized bribery, and insider info feeding arrangement.
If you think either party under it’s current form will EVER lead to any form of universal healthcare, you’re deluding yourself.
The UK has had universal healthcare since 1948. Canada since 1968-1970(provinces rollout)
Universal healthcare is not a newly proposed issue, either. Going at least as far back to FDR’s administration, his Secretary of Labor (and architect of The New Deal) Frances Perkins even advocated for public healthcare.
