An Anti Hero is basically a good guy who is kinda bad, or does good things for bad reasons. Deadpool’s a classic example of an Anti Hero
Bojack Horseman.
He’s such a terrible person but idk i love watching him and I root for him especially later seasons.
I’m not sure how long this will last, but I’ve still not forgiven Netflix for forcing the ending to be rushed. The last season should have been at least two seasons.
McNulty
Everyone in the Expanse. Naomi, Drummer, Fred Johnson, Bobbie Draper, Chrisjen Avasarala, Monica… Obviously, Amos, Peaches, Miller, and even Holden.
All of them do reprehensible things. Some did them and made up for it. Some still do them to win.
Really? Holden damn close to the platonic ideal of a reluctant hero, with a strong moral compass.
He wobbles a bit later with all the PTSD, but generally always tries to do the right thing the best way he can.
Naomi and Bobbi too, Naomi did bad stuff in her back story, but she’s much surer of herself and her sense of right and wrong due to that. Bobbi possibly a very mild anti-hero as she can lean a little blood knight, but not quite anti-hero in my view.
Drummer and Fred Johnson are much more morally grey, and start out as more antagonists than they end up being.
Avasarala is similar, but she’s also a magnificent foul mouthed mother. She can get anti-hero status for sure.
Amos I think is more of a villain protagonist (dueteragonist?) than anti-hero.
Miller is anti-hero in the Shinji Ikari type.
Anti-hero: the protagonist whose methods, while effective, are not openly supported or celebrated because they fly in the face of “norms.”
While I agree with your analysis on Holden. Reluctant hero, to be sure. He sure did screw over Earth and Mars on a fairly regular basis to make his points stick. He disobeyed orders and protected a Belter ship, which got him bounced from the Navy. He declined promotion so he could keep shagging the pilot of the Cant. He went alone on sending out the message that got them caught by the Donny… and that was all before shooting down a medical relief vessel, shearing off the drive section of a UNN vessel, targetlocking every ship in the Ganymede AO as he escorted the Weeping Somnambulist away. In-universe, Holden will do just about anything to advance his own ends. He’s a privateer, his motives and methods transcend in-universe moralities, which we can only see because we know all the pieces. It’s not 'til the Behemoth that he gains the patina of “saviour” — in contact with the dead, chosen by the protomolecule for direct communication, and having escaped death enough times to engender trust.
For most of the others — Amos (that guy --> just walk away), Naomi (clubbing Cyn ‐‐> waking the Presence), and Alex (we don’t talk about Alex) for running with Holden; Fred (stealing missiles, selling Inaros out to the Inners --> “in my quarters, stop them”), Drummer (executioner --> “speak plainly”), and Bobbie (warrior, defector, ronin, mercenary --> fucking Valkyrie) for materially supporting Holden; in-universe, they would also be regarded as Anti-Heroes until they’re not because of their arcs. Don’t hate the playa. Hate the game.
Maybe “hero of the belt” = anti-hero precisely because it undercuts the frame of a “classic” hero. Much to be learned, then. Maybe I just want them to be anti-heroes because I have so much respect for these characters, their subversion of “norms” and willingness to address a greater good.
Nice touch with the comparison between Amos and Shinji Ikari. If this had been 2 years ago, I wouldn’t have known. I see it now.
Also, Clarissa Mao?
I agree with your view for how they’re seen in universe, but “anti-hero” is a Doylian status rather than Watsonian.
Holden follows heroic, regarded as heroic by our 21st century Anglo-European society morality. Alex, while the heart of the gang is more of an anti-hero due to his commitment phobia and run of failed relationships.
They’re all (except Amos (except he kinda is in his own way)) admirable characters, and worthy of emulation.
Clarissa, like Fred Johnson, and to a lesser extent Avasarala (although more so in the books) started off in antagonist roles, and thus tend to be more anti-hero /accepting of less moral choices because of that. Good arcs and development with all of them. But Johnson is more supporting cast, so doesn’t quite get to anti-hero for me on that count, but made difficult choices to make up for past crimes.
Agreed. I think Amos can rightly be called an antihero, same with Miller.
But Holden is the archetype ‘good guy’ and everyone else is also unambiguously ‘good’ who occasionally do morally gray things for pragmatic reasons.
Such a great show (haven’t read the books (yet) sorry!)
Iirc, the original definition of an antihero didn’t mean a bad guy you root for. It meant a hero in the story that didnt embody the traditional heroic traits of courage, strength, faith in God, noble morality, etc. The antihero is the hero who is not really heroic - a hero who is kind of just a normal person. An example of this being Don Quixote - a man who spent his time fighting dragons and rescuing princesses only in his imagination.
These days, almost all heros outside children’s books are antiheros. Because true heros are flat and one dimensional and unrelatable and don’t contribute to an engaging plot. These days, it isn’t thrilling enough for us to hear how the knight slew the dragon. He must first overcome… I dunno, his childhood trauma or something… And then he can slay the dragon!
I just recently started Don Quixote and have only just made it into part 2, but he doesn’t really strike me as a hero. Maybe in his own head he thinks so. He’s certainly the protagonist, but from what i’ve read so far, he’s been rather antagonistic towards the people he interacts with.
Fred Flintstone Garfield
They said anti-hero.
Didn’t see him posted yet, Walter Joseph Kovacs aka Rorschach.
The one who hates immigrants, gays, and liberals? Might want to take a little closer look at your favorite character.
Can you be a hero for not doing anything?
Assuming he didn’t do it (he didn’t), he’s taking the fall for a saint so that’s saintly on its own imo
Isn’t this just a hero?
Saint Luigi 🙏
>does good things for bad reasons >gluttony is considered by many to be badkirby. kirby is my favorite antihero
To be fair, after the swallowing he sometimes puke. It’s not a total sin, but just a eating disorder.
Shut up baby, I know it!
Malcolm Reynolds
A Firefly fan in the wild!!!
I feel like the overlap of Firefly fans and Lemmy is pretty gorram big.
Shiny
You’re probably right. The last time I saw Firefly get brought up, there were many comments of people just shitting on it.
There’s dozens of us!
“I aim to misbehave”
I’m lost.
I’m angry.
And I’m armed.
Capt Tightpants
Leto II. Deadpool was already taken, so I went with a more controversial example.
After watching Andor, I guess Luthem Rael fits that title. Dude’s absolutely savage. Forced to use the tools of his enemy to fight for freedom that he’ll likely never experience. He sacrifices good people on order to protect the whole
It’s also established that’s he’s an accelerationist. He’s intentionally baiting the Empire to crackdown more brutally on dissent in an effort to forment rebellion among the common people of the galaxy. He fears that if he does not do this, there will be a day when the Empires grip is too tight to escape.
“It will burn… Very brightly”
In the end, he was right. The Death Star vindicates his methods. Without Luthen laying the groundwork for the Rebel Alliance, the Galaxy would have been a boiling frog and the Death Star would have led to its brutal oppression for generations.
He’s absolutely a hero and without him the death star would’ve probably obliterated the rebellion (if it even existed without him). His methods aren’t exactly “good” though from the perspective of good vs evil. As we see with Mon Mothma who is maybe a bit naïve and definitely doesn’t approve of his methods. But I think a rebellion needs a Luthen. He knows he’ll be hated by pretty much everyone, but in the end he managed to get so much done. He’s the fall guy so the formal rebellion doesn’t have to get their hands dirty.
V from V For Vendetta
No mention of The Punisher?
I think he has an automatic negative connotation just because of his many cops etc idolize him, but he’s a fantastic character. In the (Uhh I think) daredevil show and comic he knocked DD out, chained him up with a revolver, and said shoot me or I will assassinate this bad guy. Like “you wanna do the ‘killing is wrong’ shtick? Welcome to my trolley problem, bitch.”
many cops etc idolize him
Which is ironic, considering what he really stands for.
Netflix’s version portrayed by Jon Bernthal is trully amazing
