How about we don’t plan them and just do them? Hold out for weeks, don’t buy anything and if anybody hasn’t filed taxes at this point, don’t file them?
Seems like planning protests just gives the opposition time to prepare and counteract protests.
Not filing taxes isn’t the way to do it. They’d have to request that their employers stop withholding taxes on their paychecks. Filing taxes is just how they get their excess tax withholdings refunded.
Something no American wants to do or is intelligent enough in how to orchestrate. You all sit there in your little armchairs talking about revolution this and revolution that. Tell me, has anyone of you ever thought of the aftermath of said revolution? Like, how do we go about it if its achieved?
No, the subject of this post is doing real work. All you’re doing is detracting from the work being done while wishing for some magical solution.
Something no American wants to do or is intelligent enough in how to orchestrate.
Some americans are currently orchestrating it intelligently, and your complaint is that they “shouldn’t plan, just do.” So much for intelligent orchestration…
You all sit there in your little armchairs talking about revolution this and revolution that.
That’s just the stupid fucking tankies, who also complain about any real work being done, just like you’re doing.
Tell me, has anyone of you ever thought of the aftermath of said revolution?
Yes, that’s why most of us tell tankies to fuck off when they talk about that shit.
Doing real work would be going to Washington D.C in collective mass and occupying the white house. Or you know, doing real work would involve actually tracking, following and routing every corrupt politician. Doing real work would involve getting up in Trump’s face personally, as he is too powerless to stop millions that’d theoretically approach him.
No american has the balls to, they just do whatever is convenient for them. The real work is stop supporting the regime that this country has once again, put itself in. No american wants to upset their life to do that, no, they’ll want to be cute and plan on an off-day to go out and raise a sign up and down. It is vibes of Occupy Wall-Street, that protest did nothing.
No, it isn’t just tankies. It is by observation, as to how many people I see online talking big and boldly about their revolutionist dreams, but keeping them as just that - revolutionist dreams. Keep assuming blindly.
I asked for a full plan, not a witty retort. You’ve demonstrated as to how little you’ve thought of actually running a country post-revolution would take. Proves me right.
You seem to resort to just spamming that word ‘tankie’ but I don’t think you absolutely realize what is being said to you. Man, you’re a lost cause. Fucking moron.
Well have fun with that. Now run along and play, the grown ups are demonstrating.
It is by observation, as to how many people I see online talking big and boldly about their revolutionist dreams, but keeping them as just that - revolutionist dreams. Keep assuming blindly.
How is that not exactly what you’re doing?
I asked for a full plan, not a witty retort. You’ve demonstrated as to how little you’ve thought of actually running a country post-revolution would take. Proves me right.
More projection. Is that your only card? I’ve offered plenty of intelligent input on this thread and others, but your comments aren’t worth the effort because they don’t stimulate productive discussion. Don’t blame me that the only valid response to you is to point out how unhelpful you’re being.
You seem to resort to just spamming that word ‘tankie’ but I don’t think you absolutely realize what is being said to you. Man, you’re a lost cause. Fucking moron.
No, I understand exactly what’s being said. And I only use the word “tankie” to refer to “tankies.” You’re complaining about keyboard warriors who advocate for their revolution fantasies. Those are literally tankies. Are you offended by the word ‘tankie’? What’s a matter, are you a tankie or something?
So far in this thread you’ve called people ‘retards’ and ‘morons’, so don’t accuse me of spamming words without understanding the conversation being held. You’re the lost cause here, not I.
This is something that I always think about when people mention guillotines and why the example is so stupid to me. The aftermath of the French Revolution was bad for the Feudal Monarchy, but also wasn’t good for Robespierre and the Jacobins. If you recall, he was also beheaded by the guillotine after shooting off his own jaw and the sans-culottes were repressed by the bourgeoisie after the revolution “stabilized”. It’s critical to have a well-developed plan in any power vacuum or there will be far more bloodshed, instability and other bad guys will just take over.
I feel like planning is less the problem moreso the length. A day is basically nothing. We’d have to go back to Covid length shutdowns for even the smallest impacts to happen.
Organized resistance is a muscle. The reason you see so much shit like this in France is because they exercise theirs regularly. The US does not. You can’t go from years of a desk job straight to running a marathon. You need to build up. Get people used to doing this stuff.
No Kings started by getting people to show up to protests. Lots of people. More than ever before in US history in fact. Now they’re just asking those people to go one step further. You manage a one day general strike, maybe you can do two. If you can do two, maybe four. If four, maybe a week. Build those muscles. Build people’s confidence. Build the movement.
This is what resistance looks like. It’s not some happy little fantasy where everyone just spontaneously rises up and removes all the bad people from power. It’s not Hollywood. It’s slow, and it’s hard work, but it’s real.
This is one of the biggest problems with a general strike these days. The wealth inequality between them and us is such that even a year long strike will only ruin most of us, meanwhile they’ll get a government bailout even though they never missed a payment on their yacht. You might be able to destroy a MAGA supporting small business, but you’ll wreck yourself and your like-minded neighborhood small businesses along the way. I don’t have a solid solution, just throwing this out as food for thought.
That’s cool as long as you make sure you’ve cleared the building of any non-human persons prior. Start lighting up pets or livestock willy-nilly and I’ll give you a taste of your own medicine, personally. ✊🐾
Thing is there are no like-minded small businesses around me. Pretty much all of them either openly support Trump or try to hide their beliefs until you walk in when the right customer is chatting up the manager. If they all went down, I wouldn’t shed a single tear.
Well you’ll still need to organize mutual aid networks and logistical infrastructure to produce and distribute food year-round, every single day. Because if all the grocery stores shut their doors and all the shelves are bare, what are people going to eat?
That’s not so easy, is it?
What do you do when the majority of farmers in the US are trump supporters and corporate conglomerates who won’t donate crops even when they have a surplus that they can’t sell?
Even if you have the crops, how do you process them and package them large-scale without industrial facilities and labor? How do you transport them without vehicles, fuel, and drivers/conductors?
In order for the movement to achieve a complete and total success, without resulting in a complete and total disaster, you need to have these details hashed out. And that means getting everybody onboard: the farmers, the millers, the packers, the drivers and the conductors, the warehouse operators, the grocers, and the clerks.
And that’s just for food. What about medicine? What about education? What about mechanics, manufacturers, tech support, social work? It all needs to be in place, and that means everybody needs to be onboard. Without that, you have an immanent failure.
Small steps build the momentum. Every step in the right direction is a net positive.
Are your grocery stores run by maga small business owners, or by corpos?
Either way, if you want to run them out of business, something needs to replace them.
If you can’t see the connection, then you’re too shortsighted and ignorant to be allowed anywhere near the decision-making levels of any movement underway.
I’m not signing up for anything you’re promoting, if you’re that hostile towards the mere suggestion that we need to exercise foresight and think about what comes next.
Something tells me if that actually happened, you’d complain about how impromptu protests don’t work because people need time to prepare and they’re too disruptive.
It’s something, but more importantly, they’re actually doing it. If you wanna do better, do it. Don’t just bitch on here about how they’re doing it wrong
No you fucking don’t! You advocate for no planning and some spontaneous, disorganized, and magical “just do.”
How about we don’t plan them and just do them?
This you?
too bad nobody listens because everyone like you, seems to have it alllll figured out, don’t you?
You’re the one who seems to think you have it all figured out, so quit projecting. Why should anyone listen to you when you’re only point is “everyone’s wrong but me, everything the organizers are saying during the ‘planning’ stage is invalid, people shouldn’t listen to them, they should listen to me!”
Well, unlike you, the protest organizers are actually creating and maintaining a movement and taking tangible actions. So I’m not surprised no one listens to you when you’re trying to detract from that.
Nobody listens to anybody anyways unless it’s a stupid echo chamber followed by a vague message for everyone to get cozy with. Because Americans don’t know how to protest, they’ll only do whatever is most convenient and comfortable.
You’re the idiot. The IRS already has the money. It gets withheld from every paycheck. Filing taxes is just how to get the excess money refunded.
The only people who owe money from tax refunds are the ones who opt out of tax withholding, and people whose primary source of income is investment interest.
We owed money the last couple years. We definitely didn’t opt out of withholding, and we don’t make any income from interest. It’s as easy as just not having your paperwork done correctly. Or even when it is, as it was in our case, the default withholding is an estimate which is why most end up overpaying (hence the refunds). I ended up putting an additional $50/check for taxes so we’d at least be getting close to owing nothing. This is the first year in quite a few that we actually got some money back.
Yeah, generally you want to owe. Otherwise you are giving the gov an interest free loan. And losing out on any interest you might get on that money. This year I had some wonky job stuff go down, and they significantly over withheld on a chunk of my money. Not sure I had any say in it at all. So big refund from the feds. Oddly, as always seems to be the case, my state return was a tiny refund. High state income tax and no sales tax will do that.
This. The infrastructure to take large scale labor action has been systemically dismantled over the past 50 years. We need to focus on networking and building up institutional infrastructure for large scale collective action. It’s not a fast process, and you can’t coordinate the logistics for this kind of collective action in a year or two.
The civil rights movement took decades to achive anything. The union labour movement took generations to build enough legitimacy to have an impact. Organizing on that scale is not something you can do in weeks or months.
So what’s your plan? Do nothing? Okay, then stop being a scab and go complain about it on .ml where the adults in the room don’t have to listen to your brainrot.
Liberals love to infantilize, your plan is doing nothing. If civil rights activists in the 60s took the same approach we wouldnt have civil rights laws yet. But instead of listening to people that have experience in organizing and protest liberals would rather listen to the people neutering their power.
Counting on politicians to fix this, regardless of party is an exercise in futility. We need to be building community organizations whether it’s Trump in power, Kamala, or Bernie. The Dems can’t fix this, the best you can expect from them is the bleeding slows down. We won’t get something better until we build it ourselves, with or without liberal permission or approval.
This is the big one. It wouldn’t surprise me if a majority of these people are only upset cause Trump is the one doing this shit. If Kamala had won, they couldn’t care less that we’d still be murdering people overseas, deporting innocent people, and sending weapons to Israel. Where were these parades when Biden was doing this shit? Best you had was colleges attacking students who said anything and Biden siding with the colleges while all the shitlibs agreed with him and wanted another president just like him.
Stop pretending things would be just as bad under Kamala Harris, or that things were just as bad under Biden.
Were either of them perfect? No, of course not, and no one here is arguing that they were. But to pretend they’re just as bad as trump is as asinine as it is destructive.
It’s the only way to wake libshits up to how awful these fucks have destroyed everything for decades. Every single time a Dem takes office, all these people just shut down and ignore everything until they lose the next election. Until we start seeing this pressure applied to them also, I’m gonna keep calling people out on their BS.
Nobody is “waking up” because of your hyperboles mistakenly equating Biden and Harris to trump. The only thing you’re making anyone do is roll their eyes at you and stop listening.
There are plenty of legitimate criticisms to make about the DNC establishment. Now is the time to do it, with primaries around the corner, if you’re willing to engage productively.
But saying they’re just as bad as the RNC is not it. It’s not a productive conversation, and it sets us back more than you realize.
The primaries will never offer any actual leftists, especially in the DNC since they already made it clear they won’t allow fair primaries. The only way to get leftists in power is to support third parties, but too many morons but into the mindset of that not working so they refuse to even try just like they do with violent actions of protest. Too many want to keep a look of peace and decorum which doesn’t allow for actual change. The second you bring up damaging anything even a little, they push back and shove you out.
How about we don’t plan them and just do them? Hold out for weeks, don’t buy anything and if anybody hasn’t filed taxes at this point, don’t file them?
Seems like planning protests just gives the opposition time to prepare and counteract protests.
Oh shit, are the american people about to go there?
Because that is some rad 1773 shit lol
Not filing taxes isn’t the way to do it. They’d have to request that their employers stop withholding taxes on their paychecks. Filing taxes is just how they get their excess tax withholdings refunded.
So… your idea is to have an organized general strike that includes everyone while not informing anyone ahead of time?
A disorganized strike, if you will.
I think their idea is that the protest doesn’t end Monday as everyone goes back to work, which is why this didn’t even worry Trump and his group.
Yeah, it’s called doing real work.
Something no American wants to do or is intelligent enough in how to orchestrate. You all sit there in your little armchairs talking about revolution this and revolution that. Tell me, has anyone of you ever thought of the aftermath of said revolution? Like, how do we go about it if its achieved?
You’re not one to talk.
No, the subject of this post is doing real work. All you’re doing is detracting from the work being done while wishing for some magical solution.
Some americans are currently orchestrating it intelligently, and your complaint is that they “shouldn’t plan, just do.” So much for intelligent orchestration…
That’s just the stupid fucking tankies, who also complain about any real work being done, just like you’re doing.
Yes, that’s why most of us tell tankies to fuck off when they talk about that shit.
Mirror, mirror…
Doing real work would be going to Washington D.C in collective mass and occupying the white house. Or you know, doing real work would involve actually tracking, following and routing every corrupt politician. Doing real work would involve getting up in Trump’s face personally, as he is too powerless to stop millions that’d theoretically approach him.
No american has the balls to, they just do whatever is convenient for them. The real work is stop supporting the regime that this country has once again, put itself in. No american wants to upset their life to do that, no, they’ll want to be cute and plan on an off-day to go out and raise a sign up and down. It is vibes of Occupy Wall-Street, that protest did nothing.
No, it isn’t just tankies. It is by observation, as to how many people I see online talking big and boldly about their revolutionist dreams, but keeping them as just that - revolutionist dreams. Keep assuming blindly.
I asked for a full plan, not a witty retort. You’ve demonstrated as to how little you’ve thought of actually running a country post-revolution would take. Proves me right.
You seem to resort to just spamming that word ‘tankie’ but I don’t think you absolutely realize what is being said to you. Man, you’re a lost cause. Fucking moron.
Have you done any of the things you listed?
Yesterday was the largest protest in US history. Shut the fuck up you pompous counterproductive troll.
Well have fun with that. Now run along and play, the grown ups are demonstrating.
How is that not exactly what you’re doing?
More projection. Is that your only card? I’ve offered plenty of intelligent input on this thread and others, but your comments aren’t worth the effort because they don’t stimulate productive discussion. Don’t blame me that the only valid response to you is to point out how unhelpful you’re being.
No, I understand exactly what’s being said. And I only use the word “tankie” to refer to “tankies.” You’re complaining about keyboard warriors who advocate for their revolution fantasies. Those are literally tankies. Are you offended by the word ‘tankie’? What’s a matter, are you a tankie or something?
So far in this thread you’ve called people ‘retards’ and ‘morons’, so don’t accuse me of spamming words without understanding the conversation being held. You’re the lost cause here, not I.
Whoosh.
This is something that I always think about when people mention guillotines and why the example is so stupid to me. The aftermath of the French Revolution was bad for the Feudal Monarchy, but also wasn’t good for Robespierre and the Jacobins. If you recall, he was also beheaded by the guillotine after shooting off his own jaw and the sans-culottes were repressed by the bourgeoisie after the revolution “stabilized”. It’s critical to have a well-developed plan in any power vacuum or there will be far more bloodshed, instability and other bad guys will just take over.
I feel like planning is less the problem moreso the length. A day is basically nothing. We’d have to go back to Covid length shutdowns for even the smallest impacts to happen.
It demonstrates proof of concept, knocks the owner-caste off balance, and encourages future action. It’s not a wasted effort. It’s strategic.
Organized resistance is a muscle. The reason you see so much shit like this in France is because they exercise theirs regularly. The US does not. You can’t go from years of a desk job straight to running a marathon. You need to build up. Get people used to doing this stuff.
No Kings started by getting people to show up to protests. Lots of people. More than ever before in US history in fact. Now they’re just asking those people to go one step further. You manage a one day general strike, maybe you can do two. If you can do two, maybe four. If four, maybe a week. Build those muscles. Build people’s confidence. Build the movement.
This is what resistance looks like. It’s not some happy little fantasy where everyone just spontaneously rises up and removes all the bad people from power. It’s not Hollywood. It’s slow, and it’s hard work, but it’s real.
This is one of the biggest problems with a general strike these days. The wealth inequality between them and us is such that even a year long strike will only ruin most of us, meanwhile they’ll get a government bailout even though they never missed a payment on their yacht. You might be able to destroy a MAGA supporting small business, but you’ll wreck yourself and your like-minded neighborhood small businesses along the way. I don’t have a solid solution, just throwing this out as food for thought.
My solution would be a mix a ethanol and Styrofoam in a glass bottle, applied to any business that you think should be participating in the strike.
That’s cool as long as you make sure you’ve cleared the building of any non-human persons prior. Start lighting up pets or livestock willy-nilly and I’ll give you a taste of your own medicine, personally. ✊🐾
Whatever you do, just don’t draw any association between your kristallnacht and the movement, because it doesn’t need that baggage.
Its strength is in widespread public support, and all you would accomplish is taking the wind out of its sails.
Thing is there are no like-minded small businesses around me. Pretty much all of them either openly support Trump or try to hide their beliefs until you walk in when the right customer is chatting up the manager. If they all went down, I wouldn’t shed a single tear.
Well you’ll still need to organize mutual aid networks and logistical infrastructure to produce and distribute food year-round, every single day. Because if all the grocery stores shut their doors and all the shelves are bare, what are people going to eat?
That’s not so easy, is it?
What do you do when the majority of farmers in the US are trump supporters and corporate conglomerates who won’t donate crops even when they have a surplus that they can’t sell?
Even if you have the crops, how do you process them and package them large-scale without industrial facilities and labor? How do you transport them without vehicles, fuel, and drivers/conductors?
In order for the movement to achieve a complete and total success, without resulting in a complete and total disaster, you need to have these details hashed out. And that means getting everybody onboard: the farmers, the millers, the packers, the drivers and the conductors, the warehouse operators, the grocers, and the clerks.
And that’s just for food. What about medicine? What about education? What about mechanics, manufacturers, tech support, social work? It all needs to be in place, and that means everybody needs to be onboard. Without that, you have an immanent failure.
Small steps build the momentum. Every step in the right direction is a net positive.
The hell does this have to do with small businesses run by MAGAts in my area of Missouri?
Are your grocery stores run by maga small business owners, or by corpos?
Either way, if you want to run them out of business, something needs to replace them.
If you can’t see the connection, then you’re too shortsighted and ignorant to be allowed anywhere near the decision-making levels of any movement underway.
I’m not signing up for anything you’re promoting, if you’re that hostile towards the mere suggestion that we need to exercise foresight and think about what comes next.
Something tells me if that actually happened, you’d complain about how impromptu protests don’t work because people need time to prepare and they’re too disruptive.
It’s something, but more importantly, they’re actually doing it. If you wanna do better, do it. Don’t just bitch on here about how they’re doing it wrong
I was gonna say the first couple no kings protests people complained that they couldn’t go because they weren’t communicating ahead of time.
Now they communicate ahead of time and people complain that it’s too far out. They can’t win.
Removed by mod
No you fucking don’t! You advocate for no planning and some spontaneous, disorganized, and magical “just do.”
This you?
You’re the one who seems to think you have it all figured out, so quit projecting. Why should anyone listen to you when you’re only point is “everyone’s wrong but me, everything the organizers are saying during the ‘planning’ stage is invalid, people shouldn’t listen to them, they should listen to me!”
Well, unlike you, the protest organizers are actually creating and maintaining a movement and taking tangible actions. So I’m not surprised no one listens to you when you’re trying to detract from that.
I’m sure this will make more people listen to someone like you lol
Nobody listens to anybody anyways unless it’s a stupid echo chamber followed by a vague message for everyone to get cozy with. Because Americans don’t know how to protest, they’ll only do whatever is most convenient and comfortable.
What if I am due a refund. Should I file my taxes to get money from them?
You’re an idiot.
You’re the idiot. The IRS already has the money. It gets withheld from every paycheck. Filing taxes is just how to get the excess money refunded.
The only people who owe money from tax refunds are the ones who opt out of tax withholding, and people whose primary source of income is investment interest.
We owed money the last couple years. We definitely didn’t opt out of withholding, and we don’t make any income from interest. It’s as easy as just not having your paperwork done correctly. Or even when it is, as it was in our case, the default withholding is an estimate which is why most end up overpaying (hence the refunds). I ended up putting an additional $50/check for taxes so we’d at least be getting close to owing nothing. This is the first year in quite a few that we actually got some money back.
Yeah, generally you want to owe. Otherwise you are giving the gov an interest free loan. And losing out on any interest you might get on that money. This year I had some wonky job stuff go down, and they significantly over withheld on a chunk of my money. Not sure I had any say in it at all. So big refund from the feds. Oddly, as always seems to be the case, my state return was a tiny refund. High state income tax and no sales tax will do that.
🤦♂️
That’d be ideal, but Americans don’t have the organizational infrastructure to go on strike on a moment’s notice. Building that would be step 0.
This. The infrastructure to take large scale labor action has been systemically dismantled over the past 50 years. We need to focus on networking and building up institutional infrastructure for large scale collective action. It’s not a fast process, and you can’t coordinate the logistics for this kind of collective action in a year or two.
The civil rights movement took decades to achive anything. The union labour movement took generations to build enough legitimacy to have an impact. Organizing on that scale is not something you can do in weeks or months.
By the time that happens democrats will be back in control and liberals can go back to ignoring the fascism that keeps building
So what’s your plan? Do nothing? Okay, then stop being a scab and go complain about it on .ml where the adults in the room don’t have to listen to your brainrot.
Liberals love to infantilize, your plan is doing nothing. If civil rights activists in the 60s took the same approach we wouldnt have civil rights laws yet. But instead of listening to people that have experience in organizing and protest liberals would rather listen to the people neutering their power.
Counting on politicians to fix this, regardless of party is an exercise in futility. We need to be building community organizations whether it’s Trump in power, Kamala, or Bernie. The Dems can’t fix this, the best you can expect from them is the bleeding slows down. We won’t get something better until we build it ourselves, with or without liberal permission or approval.
This is the big one. It wouldn’t surprise me if a majority of these people are only upset cause Trump is the one doing this shit. If Kamala had won, they couldn’t care less that we’d still be murdering people overseas, deporting innocent people, and sending weapons to Israel. Where were these parades when Biden was doing this shit? Best you had was colleges attacking students who said anything and Biden siding with the colleges while all the shitlibs agreed with him and wanted another president just like him.
Stop pretending things would be just as bad under Kamala Harris, or that things were just as bad under Biden.
Were either of them perfect? No, of course not, and no one here is arguing that they were. But to pretend they’re just as bad as trump is as asinine as it is destructive.
They would be just as bad but you would be ignoring it because the blue fascists would be the ones in control
It’s the only way to wake libshits up to how awful these fucks have destroyed everything for decades. Every single time a Dem takes office, all these people just shut down and ignore everything until they lose the next election. Until we start seeing this pressure applied to them also, I’m gonna keep calling people out on their BS.
Nobody is “waking up” because of your hyperboles mistakenly equating Biden and Harris to trump. The only thing you’re making anyone do is roll their eyes at you and stop listening.
There are plenty of legitimate criticisms to make about the DNC establishment. Now is the time to do it, with primaries around the corner, if you’re willing to engage productively.
But saying they’re just as bad as the RNC is not it. It’s not a productive conversation, and it sets us back more than you realize.
The primaries will never offer any actual leftists, especially in the DNC since they already made it clear they won’t allow fair primaries. The only way to get leftists in power is to support third parties, but too many morons but into the mindset of that not working so they refuse to even try just like they do with violent actions of protest. Too many want to keep a look of peace and decorum which doesn’t allow for actual change. The second you bring up damaging anything even a little, they push back and shove you out.