What we have called “motorcycles” should actually be called “enginecycles”. Also, the engine on enginecycles is a four-cycle engine.
What we have called “motorcycles” should actually be called “enginecycles”. Also, the engine on enginecycles is a four-cycle engine.
I’m a bit triggered by this, so let me apologize in advance for the incoming rant.
You might be kind of right etymologically, but bikes, e-bikes, motorcycles, and likely in the near future e-motos, are specific things defined by law. The confusion between these vehicle classes is causing harm.
An e-bike is a pedal powered bicycle with an electric motor that assists the rider while pedalling up to 25km/h. You might be able to switch modes between more assistance and less assistance but there is no throttle.
If you purchase a cheap walmart / k-mart bike, swap the rear wheel with a powered hub from alibaba and strap on a battery from temu, that’s not an e-bike. They have a throttle and no limiter and in most cases can propel a 12 year old idiot at 50km/h but some times more than 70km/h. This is not an e-bike and more accurately described as an unregulated electric motorbike.
The frame isn’t built for this kind of stress, and the riders often have no capacity to understand the danger they’re imposing on themselves and others - zipping past kids playing and so on.
It’s an emerging disaster in Australia and I imagine other places as well. It’s turning the population against e-bikes when they’re not the problem.
We urgently need more appropriate legislation drafted to clearly define the classes of vehicle, and we need police with the right skills and equipment to enforce those laws.
Your statement is only partially true. In Florida, where I live, yes Florida, I know . . .there are three classes of ebikes. Class 3 ebikes must have pedals but can have a throttle and can operate without pedaling. By law, it IS still an ebike. So I believe it comes down to jurisdiction.
The rest of what you said is pretty much true and it’s a problem here too. I absolutely love riding my ebike. Mine has gears and is every bit a bike. For me the assist helps with hills (yes we have a few small ones here) and mostly wind. But it also serves another purpose. Making the ride either easier since I’m getting older or faster means I’m more likely to use the bike than a normal bike. I believe for these reasons I actually get MORE exercise with my ebike than my normal bike, at least until someone hits me with a car. So yeah, these guys with their over-powered “ebikes” are going to ruin it for the rest of us by getting us banned from trails and such.
This is the correct take.
My feeling is that if it’s controlled by a throttle, then it’s a motorbike and it should be registered and require a driver’s licence to operate, and it shouldn’t be on bike paths or footpaths.
Yeah that’s the implication, but it’s complicated.
e-scooters are controlled by a throttle, so I think there’s a debate to be had as to whether that’s a defining factor.
IMO the throttle is less critical than speed limiting. Anything you can pilot without a license should be restricted to 25km/h.
The problem is these limitations can easily be removed.
That’s why I say it really needs proper policing. You need cops on bikes, and some kind of strategy to establish whether a bike is compliant.
My bro in Berlin mentioned that infrequently the police will see up a rolling road device to stop ebikes, electric scooters etc (anything that by law is speed restricted).
They do it on a one way road where you can’t see them, with police at the top end to stop anyone that’s clearly seen and turned around to avoid it
Yeah I’ve seen photos of something like this. The one I saw was UK police I think.
This might work in high traffic areas but where I am there just isn’t enough people on bikes to set up something like this.
If the po-po stop a kid on a bike they believe is illegally modified, just confiscate and impound it where it can be assessed.
No one cares if a bike can propel you 3km/h over the limit because you changed the tyre diameter. Even if you updated the software to remove the limiter, that’s not really going to make much difference to safety if I’m honest. It’s the bikes with throttles and big hub motors that spin you up to 20 or 30km/h over the limit that are the problem.
Yup, agreed. I’m out in the sticks too, years back I tried to commute the 17 or so miles each way on a gravel bike with a conversion but keeping legal with a 250w motor it just didn’t do anything as there was no stop:starting and I was generally travelling at over the 15.5mph limit so just carrying extra weight.
Not sure why I mention as it’s a use case error on my part but I do wish I’d got a meatier motor, derestricted it and taken my chances.
Yeah I have a big heavy cannondale cargowagen.
It’s a long tail, so both my kids can sit on the back. System weight is probably 150kg with all three of us on board. By the time we wind up to 25km/h the torque provided by the motor is pretty minimal honestly.
It’s comfortable at 40km/h on a downhill slope.
I would’ve already figured out how to remove the limiter if I thought it would be helpful but… I just don’t really think it would make much difference.
Fatbikes, you mean? They’re no longer eBikes.
OP has made this quite clear. Do y’all read?
My country has this legislation and my electric scooter is technically illegal sure to it. As you control the throttle with your thumb.
Now they make really uncomfortable scooters that only power of you move your leg past a sensor as then it would be ‘kick assist’. Also those scooters cost the times the amount of regular scooters that are legal in most of Europe.
It’s s terribly bad legislation. Speed should be the main differentiator.
Your definition is just yours - I see ebikes doing 35mph+ on the sidewalk all the time.
How do I know they’re going that fast? Because that’s how fast I’m going on the street, and I’m not passing them.
Sorry you may not have understood me correctly.
In Australia and most other jurisdictions an “e-bike” is defined by law as a bike with pedal assist up to 25km/h.
If a bike has an electric motor which is propelling it faster than that, then it is by definition not an e-bike. It’s most likely an unregulated electric motorbike, or e-moto. They’re incredibly dangerous for everyone involved.
I’m pretty sure they’re intentionally conflating them to either downplay the risks of unregulated electric motorcycles, or as some odd kind of anti-bike push, depending on the person making the argument.
The news is constantly bemoaning the dangers of e-bikes, while actually talking about motorcycles, too many times for it to be accidental.
I think it’s just a news story that the people who watch news (boomers) like to hear as it confirms their world view.
No, you’re not.
Yeah the entire nomenclature does a terrible job of differentiating what really matters in vehicle type as a law regulation category. As far as i can see the main factors should be:
I’ve been following the surron and talaria bikes. These are electric dirt motorcycle. Half the vidoes I’ve seen are ppl riding them on the street. They’ve gotten so fast. They write all over their websites its for OFF ROAD USE ONLY. I want one so bad. Im sure if I ride them slowly on the sidewalk for my commute. I shouldn’t get pulled over.
Depending on where you are you might be able to get a road legal one. Talaria and Surron have both sold road legal versions of some of their models here in Australia, I believe they’ve also done so in the UK and I did read something about some US states letting you register them once appropriate lights are installed.
Of course this does require you to treat them as a motorbike and keep off footpaths, have the appropriate licence, etc. Once you’ve got the licence you can ride other motorbikes as well though so I don’t see this as a downside (it’s an enjoyable method of transport and more people should do it).
I’m at the uncool end of that trend in the UK. I dumped my car 4yrs back and got an electric vespa-shaped vehicle. I already had my full bike licence which helped make it an easy decision but even in our weather really enjoyable and nsanely cheap motoring
I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a kid riding an actual e-bike, they are never pedaling when I see them …
Me neither. There’s probably several reasons you wouldn’t buy a child a proper e-bike.
Mostly just the cost I guess. A proper e-bike is twice the cost of a home made e-whatever. Also less fun than their friend’s e-whatevers.
Seems like one possible solution should be calling motorcycles enginecycles so there’s no confusion.
Changing the name of an existing system is a non-starter. That’s why the new entry is called something else: ebike.
I think this would generate a lot of confusion.