Do you think Trump, Musk and their oligarch insider friends maybe, just maybe, opened short positions on a bunch of stock ahead of the new tariff announcement?
I was considering trying to cash out my 401k and ira in the US (I bought my first house and I think that’s one of the allowed cases), but hadn’t worked out the details yet. Guess that’s not happening right now. I no longer live in the US and will probably renounce citizenship once my parents go.
I looked at my other investments this morning based on this post and… Lol. Granted, I only one a handful, but it still hurts. My stock that was worth only like 40 cents moved up 5+% so yay for that, I guess.
Yes and the same last month, and the month before.
Do some paper trading when he does this. See how much money you could make if you buy who he is fucking just to turn it around the week after.
To be fair, the market is roughly at where it was in September (pending further tanking). So, not a huge difference…yet.
Got my family out last year, I commute back and forth.
There is something really sick about watching this from overseas, like watching paramedics carry bodies out of a car crash.
But it was no fun when I was there.
Fucking morons shooting themselves in the balls to look tough.
I’ve only been twice in the last decade: once the year after I moved and summer 2022ish. It’s just crazy to watch. My family just offered to pay for us to fly out for vacation but I declined. My non-white wife that doesn’t really speek English + immigration now means we’re not going near the place.
What happens to your 401k and IRA if you’ve moved abroad and renounce your citizenship? Will it ever be paid out?
Not an American so I honestly don’t know.
I don’t know either. I imagine it just lives on. I can’t put money in them now from Japan anyway (well, unless I want to pay some taxes in the US on top of what I pay here; no thanks). I can’t use Japan’s equivalent either since the US tax authorities will massacre you with paperwork and fines (PFICs). If social security still exists, I worked long enough in the US to get that and it doesn’t matter for that if I renounce.
If social security still exists, I worked long enough in the US to get that and it doesn’t matter for that if I renounce.
Well, hope they won’t change the rules around that if it does still exist by the time you retire. Though generally such things aren’t done retroactively I believe. Once you’ve earned it, you’ve earned it. Even if rules change for future folks. At least in sane countries, but of course we’re talking about the US…
These rules aren’t set by God. Earning it is pretty meaningless.
There is a totalization agreement with the japanese govt, so I could theoretically do something before renouncing, but I’ve never looked into it. I liked the idea of having both for diversity and safety
That wouldn’t effect legal agreements. if he’s still the owner of the accounts the are still enforced, at least when there was a functioning system in place to enforce contracts with in the US legal and banking systems.
He inherited a growing economy, a healthy stock market and low unemployment. He has undone all 3. Power move!
And he was very quick about it. I have never seen anyone deal so artfully before. /s
Be fair, it did take a long time to undo all that…
He’s been back in office an astonishing two months. That’s a lifetime!!Don’t give me hope
I keep saying that but a lot of people that just like to be contrarians (I guess?) keep saying that the economy was not really good at all.
He also had friends and allies all around the world. He’s undone that too.
My 401k today is $520 less than what it was Jan 21st. I put in almost $600 every 2 weeks.
That’s a good chunk of change that just disappeared. I can only imagine how much someone with a bigger retirement account than I have is hurting.
It disappeared now. When COVID hit I upped my contribution just to max out when the market was at a low.
The only way for the 401k to disappear entirely is if the entire economy is royally, never before seen fucked and completely collapses. At that point retirement if probably not a possibility anyways.
Any other situation you’re essentially ‘buying the dip’ and will see the returns years from now. Although if you’re looking to retire anytime in the near future it will likely be a huge hit on what you can take out.
Switching from pensions to 401ks was one of the greatest swindles of the 20th century.
It’s funny seeing how this generation grasps for morsels. Big reason why I don’t respect ya’ll.
Looking at your comment history, you’re an idiot lol
Meh I went through the same shit in 03, 08 and Covid. It hurts but keep depositing and/or increase your contribution. Your future self will thank you.
I sometimes wonder if this time is a bit different, but we’ll see. I don’t know what qualifies as a safe harbor if donvict’s wrecking crew end up destroying the entire fabric of why people invest in the U.S.
Meaning, the dotcom bubble, the early 90s recession, the 08 real estate bubble, the gigantic V that was early covid…those all still had a government that was looking to sustain most or all of our institutions.
Donvict and his crazy Project 2025/fElon dogebags are running around and ripping out the very infrastructure…
Oh I’m not stopping. Just pointing out how this is hurting people’s retirement.
And yet people still felt the need to vote for him
I’ll never understand this country…
Lack of education, bo lack of racism
And people still thinks he is playing some sort of 4D chess. My friend in Georgia mentioned that people around her says Trump is creating a dip, so that federal reserve will lower interest rate.
Yes, because president can fire tons fedral workers, can send secret police to abduct people, but cannot control the federal reserve, and have to play stagnation or bust.
One of the talking heads on one of those business news shows summed up the theory about lowering interests rates as “it’s like burning down the house to cook a steak.”
There’s no plan here, it’s just a deranged old man surrounded by sycophants doing all of the things people previously told him wouldn’t work.
Racism.
The south started a war and killed 600k Americans for racism.
It’s all some of them care about, it’s their alpha and omega.
The trump regime was designed to TANK the US economy so that stocks, businesses, and industries can be bought by billionaires at rock bottom prices.
All is going according to plan.
Its Russia in the 90s all over again. Must be a coincidence that the Russian mafia-turned-regime they’re so chummy with, got its foot in the door and secured its power through an almost identical move.
Im wondering if America will have its equivalent of the 1999 Apartment bombings.
…what were those
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings
Interesting read
No, that wasn’t the point.
There were 2 goals:
-
Cut spending to 0 so they could cut taxes (cap gains to 0)
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Isolate the US from the rest of the world, this is what Putin cares about the absolute most. If we’re out of the way he sees Russia as unstoppable (which is stupid, they can’t beat any country with functioning tractors).
-
Even the wealthy have to think about what is happening right now. To have their company’s value go to shit overnight isn’t winning him any fans.
I think a lot of them are ideological psychos. Saw an interview with Forbes magazine founder, and he’s giddy about these tariffs because he thinks they’ll enable tax cuts. I don’t think he cares if his shares tank or whatever, as long as he doesn’t have money “taken away” from him to help the poors.
A lot of people might decide to violently resist such an eventuality. Things can quickly go off the rails.
Remember that despite the rule of law no longer applying to the rich and powerful, the laws of physics continue to apply.
A lot of people might decide to violently resist such an eventuality
I don’t see a lot of evidence to suggest that’ll happen.
His MAGA fans likely don’t have anything in the market, or they don’t think they do, so they think this won’t affect them. They are in for a rude awakening.
Yep. The market is a lot like politics that way.
You might not take an interest in markets, but markets take an interest in YOU.
No they are all over invested in the market. The techbros. The effective altruists. The boomers and anyone wealthy. They voted for Trump to pump their bags and dont care about anything else. Only the dirt poor maga aren’t baws deep.
I am actually getting worried about the leopards health, are there too many faces for them to eat? Do we need to ensure they stay healthy and in shape to better continue eating all the faces by restricting the amount of faces they can eat in day?
The leopards eating faces are becoming obese.
Invite the lions, and hyenas, and wild dogs
They voted for this. We all have to be onboard for the crash.
There’s always a tweet.
This is apparently a fake tweet. An archive of the actual tweet corresponding to that datetime is here.
Thanks, though correct grammar kind of gave it away already.
He says enough horrible stuff to not have to fake any of it
Looking at that archived Tweet, I forgot what it was like for Twitter responses to not be unhinged
I forgot what it was like to actually be able to see Twitter responses.
Time for the rich to buy stocks on discount.
Assuming the US can recover…
Normally Trump does what’s best for the ultra wealthy, but de-dollarization of the world economy appears to be good for nobody in the USA. I have no clue what they’re trying to do, I suspect he’s just lost it and there’s nobody left to tell him these tariffs hurt his croneys too.
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re already too far along to save the dollar’s position globally. Globally that’s probably a good thing, but for any of us in the US it’s decidely not.
I have no clue what they’re trying to do
They published it online. project 2025. They straight up told you what they’re going to do. Add in pooty, whose goals align a great deal, and that’s it. How do people still not get this, they told you what they’re doing.
What does Project 2025 have to say about tariffs?
Project 2025 is split on the issue of foreign trade.[109] Mandate author Peter Navarro advocates what he calls a fair trade policy of reciprocal, higher tariffs on the European Union, China, and India, to achieve a balance of trade, though not all U.S. levies are lower than those of its major trading partners.[126] On the other hand, Mandate author Kent Lassman of the Competitive Enterprise Institute promotes a free trade policy of lowering or eliminating tariffs to cut costs for consumers, and calls for more free trade agreements.[126] He argues that Trump’s and Biden’s tariffs have undermined not just the American economy, but also the nation’s international alliances.[117]
The first guy won apparently.
Right, he did, but here’s my point: Project 2025 doesn’t actually come out clearly for or against tariffs. So in so far as “they wrote it all down in Project 2025 and told you exactly what they’re going to do”, that’s just not the case for tariffs. And even the guy in favor of tariffs wasn’t talking about such broad and strong tariffs all at once.
In other words, this is Trump’s plan on his own.
Yeah, that’s just Trump. He likes to be vengeful and a bully, using tariffs like a stick to beat others info submission. But he doesn’t seem to know when enough is enough.
I think it’s more to the point to say he’s trying to destroy America, period.
It’s what Putin has been using his puppet for this whole time.
America falls apart, Russia gains.
I have no clue what they’re trying to do
Treason.
Pig Boy thinks he’s Napoleon, but he’s actually dry rot fungus.
As confusing as it is this does still all fit into Theil’s plan to isolate the US in order to create a corpo-fascist state and bring back apartheid.
with this move they seem to want to stop the rich from paying taxes and replace them with tariffs. the poor will end up paying them.
he hinted at it a few times. to be clear, i think its still dumb as fuck but here it is.
Russia wins…
If it doesn’t, the rich will still be fine. Unlike most Americans, they can diversify outside of the US.
Idk, when do they buy? This shit has to go way more south before our dear great leader decides to undo the tariffs, right? And if he doesn’t undo them, when would it go back up? We’re still in a race to the bottom…
Knowing Trump’s irrationality, he just wants to erase all the market gains from when Biden was in office. That means he’ll keep at it until the DOW looses another 10,000 points or so.
Well I just bought some inverse SP500 x3 ETF so I’ll hold onto that until we reach the new great depression
That sounds like sunscreen
LOL, good luck with that.
(Inverse ETFs, especially leveraged ones, don’t work the way you think they do. They’re not really intended or suitable for anything but day-trading.)
U right, made up some of my losses today but I do plan to sell as soon as it looks sort of stable then I’ll just buy a long put
Even if he does undo them there’s no telling when he’ll put them back in place again on a whim. Everyone abandoning the market isn’t going to come back unless Trump gets Epstein’d or Luigi’d.
I lost a lot of money today, but I’m still up from 6 months ago.
This is going to last a long time and the recession is when they’ll buy.
It’s good for them when they can buy other people’s stock at fire sale prices, it’s less good for them when their own stock is reduced to fire sale prices.
And it isn’t good for them if stock growth doesn’t happen because American companies lose market share.
It’s only a concern if you need to sell during the downturn.
That’s not how it works. Stock prices don’t fall below the level that rich people are willing to buy them at, specifically because rich people buy them at that level.
Or they can all be in on it and collude to buy once the stocks fall to their target.
Down 3,163.27 since inauguration.
Hahahaha… Fuck.
I mean, it’s only fuck if you’re in the stock market.
I mean, anyone with a 401K is in the stock market.
Which is why 401k is a scam.
“Scam” in this case meaning, “I have no idea how any of this works”
It’s still basically most people’s only hope for retirement. And represents a large portion of the compensation they are literally working for day after day.
Especially with the history of constant cuts, and current gutting of, social security.
It’s not like you can’t control your 401k investments. I’ve been in bonds and gold since January.
What’s the better alternative? I’d certainly take a 401k over the current system in Germany where the current working population pays for the pensions of those currently retired. Which is obviously unsustainable if you take a single look at the demographic changes ahead.
Stocks will eventually go up again and at least for my global all world ETF the current drop means we are only back to where we were in September 24. Trump is certainly destroying a lot of wealth with his actions, but I think this would be true regardless of how you invest.
And anyone in hot waters right now because of the current drops should have probably been invested more diversified and maybe reduced risk a bit more.
You mean the United States social security system? Hah
In Canada the CPP is paying into an annuity you get after retirement.
You’re not just paying in for the current seniors, you get out based on what you put in (up to a cap)
I mean, that’s basically what US Social Security is. It also has a cap, and poorer people actually get a little more out of it than they put in, while higher earners get less. It’s just that it doesn’t pay enough to work on its own.
The old idea was that the US would have three legs of retirement: Social Security, 401k’s, and traditional corporate pensions. Each of these has downsides, but a failure in one can be propped up by the other two. However, Social Security is being pilfered, corporate pensions rarely exist unless you have one of the unions that has maintained power until now, and 401k’s are too subject to the wild rides of the stock market.
That seems like a good addition, although at least for younger people i’d still prefer stocks over the safer annuities, since with a longer time horizon you can weather out some of the fluctuations for higher returns.
Yeah, in that case we have two vehicles: TFSA which is a tax free growth account (similar to 401k), and an RRSP, which is a tax deferred growth account (offsets your taxes now, withdrawals taxed as income later, no tax on gains).
Young people should be contributing to TFSA then RRSP, depending on life goals/events. CPP withdrawals are automatic unless self employed.
I have to admit, I don’t know that it’s the best option, but all my funds are currently in a HYSA.
Not as high return as the market under normal circumstances, but it’s liquid, and it’s been relatively safe at between 3.5% and 4.25% the last several years, and the times we live in are anything but normal.
Your funds might be in a HYSA but the bank holding them probably has them in stocks and bonds.
So if the stocks fall enough you won’t have your money anyways.
Now you could say you want to hold onto cash instead, but the only fix for the banks not having money is to print money which makes cash worth less.
Okay but what if you held gold or other minerals. Well the value of those comes from the perception that they could be used to trade when other things fail, but even if milk is $500 a gallon no grocery store is going to take gold as it isn’t able to be insured and tracked. So the value of gold also will drop as it can’t actually be used for goods and services.
So basically you can’t isolate yourself and protect yourself from societies stupidity. Its all a gamble and maybe your option works out or maybe it doesn’t but there isn’t a clear way to avoid the problem.
So if the stocks fall enough you won’t have your money anyways.
Banks are insured by the government. If they get rid of the FDIC then I don’t know, but if a bank collapses you still get your money.
To be fair i think times are rarely normal. Just since 2000 we’ve had the dot com bubble, great financial crisis, covid pandemic, ukraine war and now this. Although the current situation feels like a particularly unforced and unnecessary one. And before that there were also plenty of other crisis from world wars, the cold war with things like the cuban missile crisis or the 1973 oil crisis.
HYSA with those rates certainly seem like an appealing place to be in the current market, but as always this is a question about market timing, which is hard to impossible. When did you exit your positions and when do you plan to reenter? Because as said with the recent drops on a wide market scale we are still only down to levels just before the US election and nobody knows how things will play out in the future.
So my point still stands that anyone who is finding himself in acute issues due to the current market changes has done poor risk management. Broad market etfs are meant for a long term investment horizon of 10-15 years exactly so one can weather out downturns. And if someone is close to retirment it would have been prudent to shift some portion of savings into more stable investments similar to how target date funds handle it. Which might still be a good move right now, as the losses are still within reason, assuming a diversified investment strategy (and not something like having bought tesla at peak or the trump meme coin).
When did you exit your positions and when do you plan to reenter?
I never had positions to exit. Was on the struggle bus financially for a long time and even had to declare bankruptcy back in 2013.
I started making more money and finally being able to really save and invest in late 2020/early 2021 but with Covid and everything being all crazy I wasn’t sure of the market as I’ve had no prior investing experience and didn’t even have a 401k. So I started aggressively paying down remaining debts and saving instead.
Currently my only debt is my mortgage, which I should be able to fully pay off (well ahead of amortization) in the next five years or so, and I’m currently living well below my means to save for retirement. Currently I have probably 18 months to two years of expenses in the HYSA.
I was planning to begin investing and putting funds in 401k or a Roth IRA this year, but Trump happened and I’m as lost as ever. I prefer the safe bet of the saving yield right now to potentially losing a ton of money, seeing as the markets are just falling everyday from what I can see.
It’s good to have 3 months to a year of expenses saved in an HYSA to start with as a rainy day fund you can use in an emergency (i.e. lose your job/house, etc.). I think there are some studies that a huge portion of the population doesn’t have savings to cover even a surprise $1000 expense.
That’s more important than putting money in the stock market to start with but after you have that you can put your savings into an IRA or something preferably in a diversified fund. (Vanguard has a few tgat are specifically targeted for retirement at particular years).
At this point I think I have more like 18 months to 2 years in my HYSA right now. I aggressively paid down my debts and as of January this year my mortgage is the only one left, but I didn’t start having enough to seriously invest until the last few years (maybe 2020 or 2021) and I’ve been aggressively saving since while I figure out where to put the money longer term.
On the bright side, I’m making so much more than I spend that it’s likely I’ll have my 30 year mortgage (27 years remaining) paid off inside of 5 years while still being able to continue saving, and paying the mortgage off will accelerate my retirement options.
My life experience has given me no reason to believe it was ever going to pay out anyway. Let the motherfucker burn.
Have you actually looked at it? The sort of index fund that people put their retirement money in (if they invest in stocks rather than bonds) has doubled its value in the last 7 years. Quadrupled in the last 13.
Let the motherfucker burn
Allow me to introduce you to the concept of a global depression, a situation far worse than anything we’ve seen in the last 100 years or so
I pulled out when he won.
The canary dies, you take action.
Just think of all that millennial investments!
Where my SPXS gang at? 😎
Crying in their mom’s basement about how unfair gambling is.
Old stock trader wisdom: don’t catch a falling knife.
You don’t know how low things can go. We’re merely 100 days into the Trump presidency.
It’s not even 100 days… 73 days since Jan 20th
GDP and EUR are pumping, time to jump ship.
Counterpoint: BTFD
