Summary
A genuine backlash to Trump’s ethno-nationalist authoritarianism may be starting to take shape on its own terms.
The Washington Post-ABC News poll shows “Trump slipping underwater on immigration, which has been his best issue,” with 56% of independents disapproving of his handling.
Only 21% of independents want wrongfully deported Kilmar Abrego Garcia to remain imprisoned. These policies “raise basic issues of fundamental fairness, due process, and the rule of law.”
Trump’s lawlessness across the board is clearly a problem, reinforcing the view he’s engaged in rampant extralegal abuses of power.
Why? Because now is the time to do things that people won’t remeber in 19 months when the next poll that matters takes place.
All I see is 1/5 of independents are racist pieces of shit.
Whoa there! Don’t go seeing things like they are. Thats nearly 100 percent unpopular depending on what you see.
“Telling it like it is”
Oh he’s bleeding independents. I misread that. It cheered up me for a second.
How fucking stupid were these independents 6 months ago?
They aren’t actually independents, they’re just Republicans too embarrassed to admit it.
Just as stupid as they are today.
Fucking stupid as hell
Almost as stupid as Gavin Newsom saying deportations were a distraction from tariffs and Dems shouldn’t talk about them because Republicans were strong on that issue
Or that Ball Park Hot Dog Oligarch DINO Elissa Slotkin, who gave the Democratic response to HitlerPig’s SOTU address, and started by trying to sell the concept that there were millions of people who voted a straight Democratic ticket, except for HitlerPig at the top.
Sure, there were probably a few, but they are as rare as white squirrels. She was the water carrier for the weak Democratic excuse that HitlerPig win “fair & square,” so they could act smug about their “peaceful transfer of power” to literal Nazis. Something to really be proud of, assholes.
Anyhoo, she came out this week and said that they should stop attacking the “Oligarchy,” basically saying that people are too stupid to understand what the word oligarchy means. Of course she thinks that, she’s a Sociopathic Oligarch herself, a DINO at best, and a MAGA Oligarch Mole at worst. Remember that she was previously a CIA analyst, so she comes from a world where lies and duplicity are a valued skill.
She’s a snake, and I hope she gets successfully primaried for reelection.
…but surely centrist hacks with zero integrity who cede the framing of every argument to fascists are the future of the party!!
Definitely make every political move you do based upon focus groups and polling, because people definitely love sock-in-the-wind, flip-flopping political creeps with no actual values!
Slightly stupider than all the “I’m NoT vOtInG fOr GeNoCiDe” dumbasses.
The solution to that is to not do genocide
“not doing genocide” isn’t popular on lemmy.
single issue voting (or nonvoting) never ends well no matter how good the intentions.
especially when that single issue isn’t even fixed by the other side.
They’re incredibly naive people who think they have some defensible moral high ground because they didn’t vote, but the truth is they’ve accomplished nothing and surrendered their vote to fascists. If they really cared they’d be out there calling their congressman and lobbying for a change in policy. Yes, this is hard, but no one said change would be easy. The only reason Biden won the previous election is because people went out and voted. The reason Trump won is because they didn’t vote. And I bet these people will not take responsibility for his transgressions even though they are partly responsible. I cannot help but feel we deserve this pain because our population would rather take the hypothetical moral high ground over voting for the better candidate.
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How fucking
stupidracist were these independents 6 months ago?Ftfy
“independent” rarely means leftist. It usually means “Republican but not proud to wear the label”, like libertarian.
Thats not true. Partisans don’t understand how true Independents think about politics. Often they think Indies are Centrists, or wishy washy Conservatives or Democrats. I’ve been an Unafilliated Independent since I first registered to vote in 1977. I have voted Republican, Democratic, and 3rd party, but I have always voted. Being an Unafilliated Independent means that I have ALWAYS had to choose the lesser of two evils.
I don’t choose my positions on issues based on my party affiliation, like party members do. I choose my positions based on my research, and my determination as to the best solution to solve the problem, no matter which side of the spectrum that falls. Sometimes its on the right (death penalty, guns, etc.), and sometimes its on the left (abortion, social safety nets, etc.).
Most often, including the issues I just mentioned, I am somewhere in a grey area, supporting positions that aren’t even on the table, but would make more sense that those that the parties supports, which tend to be based more on whatever will attract votes, rather than whatever will work best.
For instance, I think we should preserve the Death Penalty, but it should be extremely rare, and used only for the most heinous crimes, such a serial murderers or child torture murderers, and even then, only when the guilt is not in dispute in any way. It should be used only a handful of times a decade. Guns should be legal, but have guardrails like a 21 yo ownership age, training for concealed carry, and limitations on military style weapons, high capacity magazines, etc. Abortion should be easily available in the first trimester, and very difficult in the final trimester.
Its hard to occupy positions outside of the mainstream, because its much harder to navigate nuance, and many people dont have the Critical Thinking Skills to have confidence in their own decisions. Its much easier to listen to what your party wants, and choose to adopt their position.
Overall, I make my choice for President (and other offices) based on which candidate I believe is going to be a move America in a Constructive direction, which is why I often refer to myself as a Constructive Unafilliated Independent. These days, I am only voting for Democrats, because there is no Republican Party, and the MAGA Party is the most treasonous, seditious, corrupt, most Destructive party in American history, and I will not vote for anyone who supports them in the slightest way, and that includes weak-willed Democrats who vote for MAGA legislation or appointments.
After Harris went AWOL after the election I now consider myself an independent leftist, I don’t belong anywhere right now, dems hate that I think is bullshit harris isn’t leading a resistance and I’m obviously not conservative, at all, so… I’m an independent for right now, I think a lot of people are right now but haven’t embraced it.
Ditto on Harris. This shows that she wouldn’t have been a good leader. My eyes are on AOC now.
I’ve been calling myself an independent since the election.
I would consider myself one as well, but there’s not that many of us
How was anyone expecting the guy who openly tried to steal an election after losing to be anything but lawless?
You don’t even have to think that hard into it. The man is litterally a convicted felon. The only reason he isn’t in jail is Biden’s DoJ wasn’t as aggressive as it could have been.
Biden’s DOJ: People will respect us for being non-partisan
People: See, if Trump did any real crimes he’d be in prison but he’s not because Biden’s DOJ was just playing politics
The mass media, even so called lefty MSNBC which is center at best. Though usually pretty solid right. Didn’t cover it with the appropriate tone or seriousness it deserved. MSNBC did at least start out that way and tried before giving up. The rest of the media never did. And so there was 4 years of largely rehab to trumps image. The simple fact that he incited a coup wasn’t brought up much for fear of losing access.
And so, people started to question their own eyes. Question whether there was actually really a coup or not. If it was just being blown out of proportion like conservatives blow fluoride in the water out of proportion. If the popular media isn’t going to treat it like it’s serious why would the average consumer of popular media?
Hell so much of the media spent so much more time covering Republican false accusations of Democrats smuggling in immigrants to hurt America. Suddenly the truth became lies and lies became the truth.
And before you admonish and ridicule these people for not going to such and such website to get the truth etc. A lot of people don’t get their information and news online still. Relying on the completely captured 4th estate to report on and distill even news happening online down for them. And this is the power of control and propaganda. For a short while at least perception can be reality. We need to spend less time haranguing and attacking people who mistakenly voted for trump. Instead trying to find a way to disarm and defeat the captured fourth estate.
And before you admonish and ridicule these people for not going to such and such website to get the truth etc.
Clearly everyone who isn’t getting their news from Lemmy is irresponsible!
Sure, there are valid complaints about the media, but anyone who heard Trump say
I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have
and still voted for him had everything they needed to know better, and who didn’t hear that excerpt from the Raffensperger call?
Honestly without knowing the context something like that actually would be easy to slip by. It’s absolutely simple to think of any campaign saying we need to find X votes in this region to win. Though usually we would just think they’re talking about actually winning votes and not just whipping them up out of thin air or disenfranchising others to get them.
And remember again. That wasn’t in the media very long at all. It was even more of a blip than anything related to January 6th. Republicans and fascists can keep a line in the public Consciousness for decades. Democrats can’t even stay focused on the truth and pushing it. For more than a month or two. Of course it’s really easy to perpetuate a message and control it when you control the media and Outlets that people get it from. So Democrats are always going to be at a disadvantage. Even if they did try.
Honestly I’m not sure what an actual good solution is to this problem. About the best I can think of right now is everyone should be friends with a good poli-size student when it comes to politics or someone involved in research science when it comes to science Etc. To help temper their understanding and cut through a lot of sensationalist b******* that gets put out there
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Tried? He and Melon definitely did so.
It was “aspirational”
It wasn’t his fault. You might as well blame gunmakers for school shootings.
Trump had nothing to do with January 6, and the fact that he’s pardoned so many of the people who were there shows how compassionate he is!
No /s because that’s what the MAGats will tell you
Only 21% of independents want wrongfully deported Kilmar Abrego Garcia to remain imprisoned.
Translation: 21% of independents are a**holes.
You’re allowed to curse on the Internet
You’re also allowed not to.
Independents are not a homogeneous group. A fairer statement is that 100% of assholes are assholes.
not a homogeneous group.
21% of
There is no “of” to take 21% from.
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What a mamby pamby headline – “trump is killing the economy, turning the country into a police state regime and independents kinda are noticing”
WTF ?? 40+ % agree with him? How can this country be like that?
ANYONE who supported him or voted for him or helped him get elected is a racist, a bigot and/or a misogynist— I don’t go for this “oh, a lot of people didn’t know what he would do” bullsh!t.
This is why I tell people MAKE A LIST of everyone you know or know of that helped this madman, soon enough a lot of them are going to try and pretend they didn’t and we can’t let them.
I want to see the Latino community take revenge of these morons who helped him get elected. I want the families of these people snatched off the streets confronting them. I want to see these morons who helped him get elected because Joe Biden wasn’t reacting the way they wanted on Gaza to go to Gaza and explain to them that they had to show Biden who was boss and help a man who wants to see them all dead become President.
40% is more than the amount of people who voted for him…
WTF ?? 40+ % agree with him? How can this country be like that?
These 40% of people simply don’t see any criticism of their Dear Leader, they self-select their media sources and those sources tell an entirely different story. I call it the Conservative Cinematic Universe…
That’s completely ridiculous! Not all 40+% are people that worship Trump! A significant portion couldn’t care if Trump lives or dies, but they like to see people hurt and/or they think they can profit from it.
If all we had to worry about were the cultists, Trump would be rotting in prison now.
They may not all consider themselves to be part of the Trump cult, but they all believe that the Conservative Cinematic Universe is reality, and right now, it is all slobbering Trump’s toadstool. So is there any real difference between a true Cultist, and someone who simply believes all the same lies?
Thanks, Madame Defarge.
Damn, OP. Stop giving me false hope!
There was a different AP/NORC poll (arc) released the same day that showed this basic dynamic but with the partisan ratios even more out of whack
Who are these “independents”? Because if they’re dumb enough to float over to fascism on a whim, we need to have a talk.
A majority of registered voters in the US have no party affiliation actually.
Stupid fucking cunts.
BuT RoSs UlBrIcHt aNd CrYpTo!
It makes sense, he doesn’t need independents anymore. In fact, if he holds on to power past 2028, he won’t need any votes at all to do it.
Stop this rhetoric. We won’t allow this to happen. You’re normalizing the outrageous.
If you don’t acknowledge the possibility - no, the transparent and obvious plan - to illegally hold onto power at all costs, up to and including another attempted coup… if you won’t even acknowledge the possibility, how exactly do you expect to stop it?
He’s selling Trump 2028 merch and his DOJ just said ICE can search any home they want, the FBI is arresting Judges that obey due process. The present situation is outrageous
Agreed, and this rhetoric prepares people to accept it.
In fact, if he holds on to power past 2028, he won’t need any votes at all
I see a call to action in the statement.
We won’t allow this to happen. You’re normalizing the outrageous.
To me that sounds like we won’t let it happen, but there’s no further explanation of how. So I’ll ask you directly, do you have some suggestions on how we’ll not let that happen?
There are lots of things one can do, but resigning to the fact that it will happen is not the right answer. Personally, I’m buying guns. I just bought an AR-15.
Thanks for the clarification. If you haven’t already the SRA is a good resource.
… I said “if”. And you don’t need me to normalize the outrageous, those 70+ million people who voted for the guy already did.
How do you plan to stop it, bucko. Same way you stopped him from destroying the department of education and sending a couple million student loans to collections?
You’re normalizing the outrageous.
Yes let’s keep victim blaming.
The outrageous is happening right now. This is just one more item on the list.
Ok russian bot
I’m a liberal who lives in Michigan and doesn’t want Trump as president. What the fuck are you talking about? My point is that people are resigning to the fact that he’s going to do it and that’s the wrong rhetoric. It’s constitutionally illegal and unacceptable and that’s where you should stand.
“We” are allowing this to happen, right now.
Dont try to minimize the issue. There is a real legitimate threat here, the checks and balances are failing right now.
With all the constitution and laws I find it scary that america cannot (or does not want to) stop the monster they hired for their president.
The Constitution and laws are just letters written on paper. They don’t actually do anything unless enough people take real risks and sacrifices to act on them.
They have the memory of a goldfish, but they aren’t evil.
And the backbone of a slug.
