- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- usnews@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- usnews@beehaw.org
Israel’s war in Gaza is chipping away at so much of what we – in the United States but also internationally – had agreed upon as acceptable, from the rules governing our freedom of speech to the very laws of armed conflict. It seems no exaggeration to say that the foundation of the international order of the last 77 years is threatened by this change in the obligations governing our legal and political responsibilities to each other.
You must log in or register to comment.
This may be a stupid question, but why did we need to create Israel in the first place? If my memory from my shitty American education serves me, they had all these survivors of the Holocaust with nowhere to go, so they created Israel for them to live peacefully, fuck whoever was already living there.
But why couldn’t they all just go back home? I know everyone was shipped off across Europe to the camps but like… surely they remembered where they lived before? Everything was bombed to hell but that’s the same for whoever lived there, Jewish or not. Am I missing a piece that makes the need for their own country to make sense?
It’s actually a good question. We didn’t.
The desire to create a country Israel came about in the 1800s, when Theodor Herzl looked at anti-semitism in Europe and concluded that Jews would never be accepted by countries or have any political power so the only way to get ahead in such a nationalistic world would be to make their own country. It was built on an anachronistic set of ideas; religion was tied to your citizenship of a country. Turkey represented European Muslims and UK/France/Germany represented Christians, and he concluded there was no way Jews could be considered equal citizens in Europe.
Originally the plan was to buy land in Africa or South America and declare a new country there. It was a purely secular plan to build an ethnostate. The World Zionist Congress had a vote and they narrowly approved to build the country in British mandate Palestine, not for religious reasons but because the connection to Jerusalem would help motivate immigration and tourism. They almost had it in Uganda or Argentina or Madagascar.
The holocaust merely accelerated the plan and gave a justification after the fact to build the country. Initially Israeli society didn’t like having holocaust survivors and they weren’t treated well, only today are they out on a pedestal and used as justification for their colonialism.
Jews would never be accepted by countries
Did he thought that they would be accepted by the local population?
As best as we can tell, he truly didn’t care what locals thought. He wanted to buy the land and make everyone else leave so an all Jewish state could be created.
Unfortunately this plan didn’t sit well with the locals who eventually stopped selling land to these newcomers, and the rising illegal immigration caused conflicts. Eventually an actual war erupted and new militias massacred and forcibly expelled the local Arab communities, creating the Israel we have today.
Herzl’s concept wasn’t as terrible on paper as it actually was in practice. (It just wouldn’t work in modern society where countries aren’t governed under ethnic supremacy) But likely if the World Zionist Congress had voted a different way, we’d be talking about how awful Israel was for mistreating Ugandans and forcing them off their land.
I’m no less ignorant than you are, but “returning home” isn’t as easy as it sounds when your leaders and neighbors were at best complicit and at worst eager conspirators (excepting those who rebelled either openly or secretly) in your extermination. Jews have a rather long history of being…mistreated, for lack of a more appropriate term within reach, so the abstract idea of having a self-governed homeland where you can feel safe as a Jew seems to make some degree of sense in context.
But because Zionism is generally practiced by nationalists and religious zealots, and because colonialism was (and evidently is) still considered a-ok by the global power brokers when all this started, the tone of the occupation became “we’re taking your space because we deserve it and you don’t” rather than “may we please share your space in mutual benefit for our safe refuge.”
It was more “given up” rather than “freely given” to the Zionists. They were resolute invaders and ferocious terrorists. And once they tuned their sights from the local population to the British, the British fucked off real fast. Then did the paperwork.
Our imaginations have always fallen short with regard to World War III. The only thing anyone can visualize is total nuclear destruction, but this world definitely has another actual world war left in it where conventional forces fight it out across multiple fronts, largely through proxies but orchestrated by the major powers. The world economy will plunge into chaos for a decade or more. The political situation in every country around the world will turn to shit. Fascism will bloom and commit mass atrocities. Oh shit… that’s all already happening.
The next world war
Will have no rules
Israel does not have a future after this. They’re removing their own credibility, and the world knows it. They’re nothing but a rogue state at this point, waiting to be put to sleep like a rabid dog.
Like a dying star undergoing supernova. A rampant destruction at the end.
All the major western countries still back up israel and.was celebrsting them attacking Iran. Unfortunately israel is not a rogue state yet
I bet they are grabbing by the balls most of those states with something. If that is the case, it won’t last for long.
They buy israeli military tech tested in gaza and are still neocolonial racist countries
The US backs Israel no matter what. However the current situation is more difficult within the EU. Suspending the trade agreement with Israel is relativly possible. At the same time Israel being convicted of genocide, would basically end any sort of moral argument made in countries like Germany. Also the US is a huge reason to be more Israel friendly and that relationship has some issues.
Israel attacking Iran was celebrated in countries like Syria too. Not exactly a rarer stance in the Arab world too.
Syrians hate Iran but hate Israel harder. If EU can still back up Ukraine despite trump siding with Russia, they can stop supporting Israel too. There is no excuse at all for Europe. The strongest European countries has zero issue with Israel they just like to pretend
Such a shame that doing anything about it, including asking nicely, would be rabidly antisemitic.
Edit: also acknowledging that it’s both happening and a problem is antisemitic. You are allowed to day it would be bad if it did, and youre allowed to acknowledge whats happening only while you sing the popular zionist childrens song ‘exterminate the brutes’.
The only victims of calling palestinian supporter antisemitic is non zionists jews who will exprerience more real antisemitism
Late stage capitalism is killing the world
When are we going to talk about African wars?
Talk about them nobody stopping you bt you don’t care you just need a way to deflect from the current topic and genocide
When the US starts being the primary funder of them.
Removed by mod
There isn’t any difference between American arms and israeli arms
It’s actually China and Russia who’s funding them currently.
United snakes hold the crown of the number of countries bombed by them (30 countries) and the number of coups (dozens).
-
Cold War regime change attempts (64 covert, 6 overt, 1947–1989):
https://mwi.westpoint.edu/covert-operations-fail-more-often-than-not-so-why-do-leaders-order-them/ -
Global interventions, including coups and election interference (81 interventions in elections, 64 covert and 6 overt regime change attempts):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change -
List and discussion of US-backed coups in Latin America, Middle East, Africa, and Asia:
https://www.themontrealreview.com/Articles/US_Intelligence_Projects_in_the_Cold_War.php -
General overview of US foreign interventions, including nearly 400 military interventions and examples of coups:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_United_States -
Washington Post summary of academic research on 72 US attempts to change foreign governments during the Cold War:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/12/23/the-cia-says-russia-hacked-the-u-s-election-here-are-6-things-to-learn-from-cold-war-attempts-to-change-regimes/
-
The genocide in Sudan is funded by the UAE which is an American proxy and best friends with Israel.
The UAE is very much doing its own thing in Sudan. The world is becoming multipolar and the UAE is going to be one of the smaller poles.
China and Russia are funding the anti “resistance“. It’s just a proxy war. Same exact thing the Afghanistan war was about
You’re beyond saving. You cannot even recognize why it matters if you’re participating in a genocide or not. A genocide is already happening, why not make a buck off of it? In a past life, you worked at IBM. There you sold computers to the Nazis to help them tabulate the Holocaust.
Don’t know who you intended to reply to, but I hope you find them!
The Jewish people of the world deserve apology from the government of isreal for using their suffering as a political tool in service of genocide.
In conflating politics and imperialism with lineage and race, the political movement of Zionism sows incalculable hatred into the world in the name of Judaism, so that they can reap it later, when Jewish people suffer as meat shields, as justification for expansionism, and forever-war. Down with this theocratic shell game.
All my life I’ve been hearing propaganda tarring all Jewish people as being murdering racist colonizers.
It’s very strange that that propaganda is now coming from the government of Israel and wealthy Jewish people in the US.
Seems like a really stupid and counterproductive move, but I’m sure they know what they’re doing.
As someone who is a Jewish refugee in the US, there are more than enough Jewish folks in Israel and around the US who are completely fine with what the government of Israel is doing. They should not be let off the hook. I say this fully realizing that the pro Palestinian sentiment has a large Jewish constituency in the US. So it’s not to paint with a broad brush. But people living in Israel are almost 3/4 in support of what is happening and the only protests in that country were from people who wanted to rescue the hostages but were fully on board with the horrors the country is committing in the name of Jews around the world. The conflation of a religion with an ethnicity will end up making us less safe.
That’s not because they’re Jewish, though, it’s because they’ve let their ego and pride overcome their empathy for their fellow human beings.
There’s plenty of non-Jewish people who are also perfectly happy to profit off the suffering of Palestinians.
it’s because they’ve let their ego and pride overcome their empathy for their fellow human beings.
What a terrible excuse
Those were absolutely not the only protests in Israel, those were the only protests in Israel that got coverage and support from the government. The protests against what was happening were violently suppressed and silenced as has been happening for quite some time. Yes the large anti netanyahu protests made little mention of Palestinians rather than ceasefire deals to bring the hostages home but that is how you bring people together politically.
Once the hostages are all released most of them will stop caring
This is hilariously short sighted.
Oh yeah? So why Israelis was so silent before the 7 of October?
Are you a real person? Israel has been destroying Gaza since way before October 7th.
Yes, did i say otherwise? Israel has been destroying Gaza since way before October 7t and Israeli was pretty silent about it strengthening my statement that most Israelis only care about their hostages and couldn’t care less about Palestine being genocided
My pro-palestinian praxis is making sure my Jewish neighbours have no reason to even think about aliyah. Jewish safety? It’s here. Reverse doikayt.
The Palestinian people deserve a lot of apologies from a lot of assholes on the internet that have monetized their suffering.
And a lot of people in the Arab world deserve an apology from the Ayatollah of Iran for using them as meat shields in their failed attempt to wipe Israel off the map.
Removed by mod
Literal parallel reality material. Arabs overwhelmingly support Iran’s antagonization of Israel and wish their own governments would do the same. Source: am Arab.
I am arab too, you are lying
Zionism is a destructive toxic ideology of fascistic bloodlust and racial supremacy. It is the true descendent of Nazi ideology.
Given that the Zionist movement was founded decades before the Nazi movement, I would say Nazis are the descendants.
More accurately, they’re both separate descendants of ethnonationalism which was a popular ideology at that time. And still today, evidently, though it seemed to be in decline for a bit during the post-war period.
Well, 19th century zionism was a different thing. Optionally but not necessarily evil. Sometimes it was as benign as ‘lets all go somewhere and join a community together ajd bring the ways that we’re cool to that community and even if they dont totally like us, they can’t hate us more than these assholes’.
So it is fair to say that the idea of zionism that ‘won’, the genocidal theocratic ethnostate, is at least to some extent based on both the nazis, and some of the same esoteric bs the nazis were into.
It was always about stealing local people land and displace them
Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere.
We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country. - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
deleted by creator
Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine. Joining those two groups is ridiculous and rude to Jewish people.
The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution. That pissed off the local Arabs (understandably) and both of them started arguing—which was not usually violent until 1920-30ish.
That said, after it became a British Mandate (1917), Israel got a ton of international support. And obviously after WWII, they got whatever they wanted…. Which, was choosing violence.
A lot of the reason the Arabs got little support was because they were fragmented, with no leadership. Each of their revolts were seen as a threat and not a legitimate push back against colonization. And, after the Ottoman Empire fell, England and France “stole” that land, so revolts were more or less terrorism (in their eyes, of course).
The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution.
This is completely ignoring the boycott and parallel society angle. What Zionists did in pre-mandate Palestine was also forced expulsion of Palestinians; the forcing part was simply delegated to the state. Had they simply wanted to settle in Palestine nobody would’ve minded, but that was fundamentally not what the Zionist project was.
According to Israeli historian Benny Morris, Zionism was inherently expansionist and always had the goal of turning the entirety of Palestine into a Jewish state. In addition, Morris describes the Zionists as intent on politically and physically dispossessing the Arabs.
The World Zionist Organization established the Jewish National Fund (JNF) in 1901, with the stated goal “to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people.” The notion of land “redemption” entailed that the land could not be sold and could not be leased to a non-Jew nor should the land be worked by Arabs.[145] The land purchased was primarily from absentee landlords, and upon purchase of the land, the tenant farmers who traditionally had rights of usufruct were often expelled.
-Wikipedia
Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine.
Nazism had a lot to do with the German people expanding their homeland to Eastern Europe and Russia and murdering the inhabitants. Starting to see the similarities now? Nazism and Zionism are sister ideologies, both fruits from the same rotten tree that is European settler colonialism.
Anyone could argue that “my people deserve this” is a similar ideology. That’s just false equivalence. You are cherry picking, and ignoring a whole lot of history and intention.
Has Israel moved towards a similar ideology? Yes. But to claim in started out with that intent is just angry jaw flapping.
Anyone could argue that “my people deserve this” is a similar ideology.
“My people deserve this land at the expense of its current inhabitants” is fascism, or at least the underpinning thereof, so you’re not wrong there. Nazism, Zionism, Manifest Destiny, it is literally the same thing manifesting in different ways. Look up “blood and soil” and “Lebensraum”. Ben Gurion is literally on record saying “we must remove the Arabs and take their place”. The Nakba started before the founding of Israel. If you have an argument for how the Nakba was anything but fascism, let’s hear it, but so far you’re not saying anything of substance.
But to claim in started out with that intent is just angry jaw flapping.
Okay let’s try this. Try this online quiz and see if you can get more than 15/21.
It’s really easy to cherry pick similar statements from people and compare them and make a whole website. Anyone could do the exact opposite.
If you’re going to quote people, you need to use dates because as I have said before dates matter.
who bombed the king david hotel again and became leaders of israel? was it the palestinians? No?
Gee and its a wonder why they aren’t called terrorists. Could it be, could be it be racism and colonialism?
It’s really easy to cherry pick similar statements from people and compare them and make a whole website.
My dude non-fascists don’t say “when we settle [region], [group] will have no choice but to scurry like drugged cockroaches” (dated 1983 btw). Also the site has dates and sources for the quotes; most Zionist quotes are recent but a few are from the 20th century with two from before WWI. They even have one by Herzl himself. Zionism was and continues to use and be predicated on downright Nazi antisemitic propaganda about how Jews can never live with non-Jews and how diaspora Jews are sickly and weak and all that shit. That’s why they shit on Holocaust victims, for instance.
Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine
They actually had a huge amount to do with the creation of Isreal, actively encouraging and facilitating the movement of German Jews there.
Removed by mod
Herlz also asked support from antisemites
The result of the persecution against the Jews resulted in an influx of them going down there. However, the persecution was long before World War II and the Nazis did not directly assist that migration and therefore comparing the two groups as a team or descendants is offensive.
Facts:
- Zionism happened before Nazism.
- The migration of Jewish people to Palestine began long before WWII.
- The only thing the Nazis did was speed up that migration and establish international sympathy for the Jewish people.
Now, if you’re saying Israel today is Nazi-like… then yeah I agree completely.
the Nazis did not directly assist that migration
Zionists are similar tool of oppressiom to nazis
The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution. That pissed off the local Arabs (understandably) and both of them started arguing—which was not usually violent until 1920-30ish
Arab was pissed of when the zionists plan became clear. Owning lands do not give you right to declare a state
There was a group of Yemeni jews who settled in palestine and people was fine with them. Arabs and those jews was going to each other festivities.
The state declaration was in 1948. Zionism was established in 1897.
That leaves 51 years for things to go wrong—and they did.
If things got pretty bad around 1920, that’s just a few years after Britain put its dirty cock in the mix. And I think we can both agree British colonialism has been the cause of a ton of problems.
Zionism was a solution to Jewish statelessness and persecution. In its early conception, Zionism was not a tool of oppression, but rather a form of self-determination.
Did Zionism become a genocidal maniac? Yes.
Zionism was a solution to Jewish statelessness and persecution. In its early conception, Zionism was not a tool of oppression, but rather a form of self-determination.
Zionists had no right to impose a state in any country. Even if the state was in Argentine or Japan or the USA, the population would have not accepted either. Facing a persecution is not a valid argument against imposing a state on the land of people who had nothing to do with the oppression .
No matter how peaceful the ideology started , fact is fact Zionism became violent and is the source of the whole conflicts with the help of the British empire.
I agree with you. Zionism did not start out similar to Nazism, and overtime, with the help of the British government, it became something significantly terrible and has lost all focus of the original intention: to escape persecution.
And… over years there have been more and more Pointless deaths – mostly caused by Israel. And in 2025, I don’t think anyone could argue against it being full on genocide against non-Jewish people in Palestine.
lost all focus of the original intention: to escape persecution.
They could have escaped percussion and live as normal citizens of Palestine but no the plan of Herzl was always to impose a state and displace the local population
Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere.
We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country. - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
Nazi was quickly in position of power so they was able to execute their plan very fast at first Nazism exclusion, discrimination, and the removal of Jews from German society then the final solution and the holocaust . Zionism needed more time to do it. Now in 2025 we are in the final stage of Zionism , the complete eradication of Palestinians in Gaza and slowly continuing eating the west bank
The Nazis were doing mass shooting, the IDF did mass shooting and mass bombing. Both the Nazis and the idf are starving people. The Nazis used gas chambers, the idf is shooting at people seeking aids with the new terrorist organization claiming to be an aid organization.
I am not saying both are equally the same and that the genocide in Gaza is worse than the holocaust but i think it is still fair to compare both rhetoric and methods
Zionists collaborated with Nazis to help them deport Jews to Palestine.
the Mayans missed it by like … 15 years
no they were spot on. it just takes a while for the change to take effect in the outside world.
Idk. Seems like this was occurring in 2012 too.
The split is between governments and the general public. I don’t know too many individuals who are ok with what is going on. And if they are, they are being awfully quiet about it.
You should go and read some daily mail comments on articles about the war (genocide). They’re a bunch of frothing murderous horrors.
Internet comments != real people
As someone who has to deal with real people at demonstrations regularly, these horrible genocidal sentiments are not just limited to internet trolls unfortunately.
Also as much as they are detached from the general population, all the politicians and Israel lobbyists and MIC lobbyists still are real people too.
Those articles always get a bunch of trolls though.
The people who are okay with it are the ones who hate the Muslims. Which is a shockingly large number of people and governments.
But those people still elect those parties thst support israel. Why those parties would listen to people?
Is it? I don’t even hear anything out of the Arab states. It should but I don’t see much.
Because America successfully turned most of the Middle East into US puppet states. There’s a reason most of the region is ruled by autocratic regimes. The only Arabic-speaking country whose government is materially opposed to Israel now is Yemen.
This war is of course a huge tragedy, but as someone who sees gaza war as a local conflict borderline affecting few cities, I can’t help but chuckle how much lemmy ignores the largest country in the world waging war in Europe and only escalating by every month, while western countries can’t seem to keep up in production. It’s Russia who will break the world, not some conflict in middle east.
What? No one’s ignoring Ukraine.
Lol, calling Russia the largest country in the world is a strange way to increase the might of a faded superpower who can’t deploy an army to win against a country much smaller than them.
It is absolutely a big deal and most of Europe offers financial, military and humanitarian assistance above what you’ll see on Lemmy. The difference is the genocide in Palestine is war crime after war crime. Sure, Russia commits and has committed war crimes, but even they follow most of the rules of war. Israel is genocidal. It’s supported by their people. It’s abhorrent.
I think Israel is foolish. They are protected by their international support and not viable on their own. Trump is unpredictable and nationalistic. They could get left out in the cold, like USA did to Ukraine very easily. Netanyahu has is ear. As does Putin and the Saudis. In trumps case, it’ll be what he can get. Israel have less to offer while requiring the funding the others don’t.
Faded superpower? Mate, this one country is now producing more weapons than all of nato combined. Wake up. While we’re discussing how much to start spending on defense by 2030, russia has multiplied their manufacturing rates, hence the every upcoming week being the worst in Ukraine’s history.
I think Israel is foolish. They are protected by their international support and not viable on their own. Trump is unpredictable and nationalistic.
That’s weird logic. If we’re going with Trump being unpredictable, then it really doesn’t matter what Israel does in terms of maintaining support from Trump.
And countries don’t base foreign policy based on what teenagers on the internet want. They base it on interests. What has Israel done that goes against anyone’s national interests? Iran is a thorn in everyone’s side, and Hezbollah has been weakened and cut off from easy supply from Iran because Assad’s regime is gone. It’s not in anyone’s interest for Iran to have nuclear weapons, and Israel has proven their capability in taking out Iran’s air defenses. The Houthis are a problem for global trade and Trump isn’t going to hit them as long as they keep to their deal and not hit US shipping.
So given everyone’s interests most countries might wag their finger at Israel publicly for political reasons, but people in power know that if their people were taken hostage by terrorists, they’d do much the same thing as Israel has done. The US has become unreliable in dealing with the middle east (not really caring about Houthis attacking other country’s shipping) so they need an ally in the region to keep Iran and their proxies in check. And Israel has demonstrated a lot of capability in that regard. So do you think countries are going to isolate Israel for the sake of a small group of protesters constantly shouting insane slogans?
I mean that Israel depends on usa support. That could disappear on a whim.
War crimes and normalised genocide is a risk to all countries sovereignty.
You’re looking at the current layout of the middle east. It’s a constantly changing unstable environment. Iran going nuclear is in nobodies interest but Iran.
Not punishing Russia for invasion of Ukraine showed the world that if you don’t want to be subject to larger countries rule, you need nukes. Ukraine is the only country to voluntarily give them up. Look how that turned out. Israel has not signed the non proliferation treaty. All other signatory countries have an obligation to stop them too. Where was that will?
Israel won’t be isolated due to protests. Israel receives support as a vassal state to be useful in the middle east. USA is no longer dependent on the middle east. Europe less so, but still dependent. Israel is therefore less useful. So support will end eventually, irrespective of Israel’s actions. Israel might hasten that end with actions that are politically damaging for the politicians in countries that enable their genocide.
Removed by mod
The only way Russia can win is if Trump bails them out. Which is a possibility, but that would just be Trump breaking things.
In repression of counter speech against genocide in almost all western countries to some degree their hand has been shown once again to be prioritizing order over law’s rotting corpse.
Not order. It’s control and oppression, a tale as old as mankind.
If we consider UN as being the main arbitrator on who gets to launch a war, then to mention a few instances…
1950: North Korea illegally attacks South Korea.
1956: Soviet Union illegally invades Hungary.
1956: Israel / France / UK illegally invade Egypt. All invaders withdraw after UN condemnation and international pressure.
1964: USA illegally escalates Vietnam War.
1967: Israel launches the Six-Day War, illegality debated.
1968: Soviet Union illegally invades Czechoslovakia.
1973: Egypt and Syria attack Israel.
1974: Turkey illegally invades Cyprus.
1978: Vietnam illegally invades Cambodia.
1979: Soviet Union illegally invades Afghanistan.
1982: Israel illegally invades Libanon.
1983: USA illegally invades Grenada.
1989: USA illegally invades Panama.
1990: Iraq illegally invades Kuwait. Got their ass kicked though so that worked out fine.
1999: NATO illegally bombs Yugoslavia.
2003: US and UK illegally invade Iraq.
2008: Russia illegally invades Georgia.
2014: Russia illegally invades and annexes Crimea.
2015: Saudi-Arabia illegally invades Yemen.
2022: Russia illegally invades Ukraine.
I probably forgot a few. No ill meaning meant, just missing knowledge.
Look at how you called them all illegsl except isrsel 6 day war thst was illegal no debate sbout it
“he Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him. - Menachem Begin
You really have to do whataboutism on every post concerning Israel.
1967: Israel launches the Six-Day War, illegality debated.
Nice how you question the illegality of Israel doing war crimes.
Hasbara bots are now on Lemmy 🥀
Only here on .world they banished everywhere else.
Genuinely the worst fucking lemmy server. Tankie shit is exhausting, but it doesnt flirt with world wars.
Previous poster was not questioning it but quoting the UN as the authority. https://www.britannica.com/topic/United-Nations-Resolution-242
Resolution 242: On November 22, 1967, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 242
-
The “inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war.”
-
The need for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied during the conflict.
They attacked on a Monday, knowing that on Wednesday the Egyptian vice-president would arrive in Washington to talk about re-opening the Strait of Tiran. We might not have succeeded in getting Egypt to reopen the strait, but it was a real possibility.” - Dean Rusk, the Secretary of State of that time
“The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.” - Menachem Begin
So there was no eminent security risk, the attack was not proportional and Israel kept the west bank and east Jerusalem violating the need for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied during the conflict
your reading comprehension is below elementary school levels.
My reading comprehension is perfect. You been calling anybofy who disagree with you stupid. Thst’s mean it’s you the stupid one. Get off your high horse.
-
I’m still not convinced about criticism of whataboutism being an actual defence. I’ve heard the argument that it doesn’t make the original criticism any less valid but to me it does. It’s more of a go fuck off together and be shit somewhere else rather than a let’s focus on this one point only purely because it was brought up before the other. And purely because it was brought up first there is not allowed to be any mention of any hypocrisy?
The guy has history of backing up isrseli war crimes
I’m pretty sure it’s just Trump breaking the world order and eroding the freedom of Americans.
When the Israel-Hamas war is over do you really think everything is going to go back to normal in the US and the rest of the world?
Removed by mod
Read the article. The most egregious violations occurred during the Biden administration. Biden is better at Trump as a whole, but on the Gaza issue, both have support for Israel locked in at 100%. People often fall for the marketing - Biden virtue signals while Trump vice signals. Biden made a few token show gestures towards Palestinian rights, and Trump gleefully celebrates his cruelty. But in terms of actual tangible support for Israel? Trump’s record is a direct continuation of Biden’s. The Biden admin for example were the first ones to propose the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. That isn’t something Trump came up with - he just vice signaled with his stupid ‘Gaza riviera’ plan, while Biden’s plan for ethnic cleansing was discussed quietly.
Could you source the statement about biden’s quiet discussion?
Myopic US take. The Israel lobby is all through the western world and has pushed almost every government into the corner of accepting this racist genocidal war lest they be labelled anti-Semitic.
Nothing excuse their complicity, nothing
I really don’t understand where this idea comes from of a country with the 40th rank GDP having the pull to mastermind politics worldwide. For reference: their revenue is about the same as Apple, whose lobbying sees less success despite being more politically neutral.
The reason they have international support is because it’s convenient and their location + antagonism align with the geopolitics of a large group of states. Isreal is a dog on a leash, what we’re seeing Trump do is give them unprecedented lead to genocide at will.
Letting them go this far and long without tugging their collar back to peace talks is not the historical norm, no matter how hard you point at Biden. Did Biden take direct military action to support them? Has any US president?
This Isreali lobbying is a boogeyman; Isreal could dissolve tomorrow and you would see another antagonist spring up in the region with international backing. People are just uncomfortable with their country being aligned with the bad guys of their own free will.
Removed by mod
The complicity of many national governments in this genocide, including my own (Canada), will be remembered with disdain.
Removed by mod
This is .world you cannot get banned for supporting genocide.
