IBM, a major advertiser on X, has pulled its spending from the social media platform, whose employees are grappling with what to tell its other advertisers, according to internal messages.
To be clear: Musk endorsed a tweet which used a false antisemitic conspiracy theory to tell people why “Hitler was right”
You support his ideology if you remain on that platform.
if you drink at the nazi bar, you might as well join their fuckwit club because you’re normalizing their behavior and sponsoring their lifestyle.
This is the point Humphrey Bogart is waving goodbye to Ingrid Bergman. We’re in Vichy territory now.
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Snooze motivation: moral condemnation
Better motivation: the funniest possible thing will happen to Musk if we just log off Twitter and stay logged off
I’m sorry but this is not productive at all. You could as well say that you support fascists if you live under a fascist state. Twitter is still full of people who are very unlike elon. There are plenty of reasons to abandon twitter but if someone does not that does not making him like elon
if you live under a fascist state.
you dont live in twitter land. you can just not use it XD
But my favorite dopamine delivery system!
just do drugs like everybody else
Cats are cheaper.
Leave animals the fuck alone
I just feel like if all of the left wing voices abandon twitter, the right-wing and fascist voices will become more common in general as twitter is where most people are. You cannot just let them exist and thrive unchallenged until it’s just not possible I guess. This will alienate people becoming more leftist if the average person, who just browses twitter because it’s popular, constantly sees more and more unchallenged bad takes.
twitter is where most people are
Twitter is gone. There is only X.
According to Musk, there are 556m monthly active “users”. A year ago Musk commissioned a study that found at least 11% of active users on Twitter were bot accounts. There’s plenty of reason to believe that that percentage has only gone up, especially in light of the fact that there’s been a significant exodus of users due to Musk’s handling of the platform, and that at the time of the study there were about 368m users. So either 200m people who were previously uninterested in Twitter were so impressed by how Musk systematically made X less functional and more expensive, or bot accounts became massively more prevalant.
Regardless, with a global adult population of 8+ billion, in no world is 556m “most people”, even ignoring the bots. Facebook has 3b monthly active users. Tiktok 1b. Instagram 2b.
As for the rest of the argument, the idea that the only way for extremist voices can be held in check is to politely engage them in rational discussion is sadly nonsense. They’re extremists. They aren’t interested in rational discussion. The only way to hold them in check is to deplatform them, whether literally or just by the old fashioned method of social ostracism.
Hats off to the downvoter who read this and apparently thought to themselves “hell no! 556 million is a lot more than 3 billion, and definitely more than half of 8 billion!!!”
By this same logic we should all go post on truth social so there is more of a diversity of opinion there. If everyone just stopped using Twitter it would fade into obscurity even more than it has. People making excuses like this and continuing to use the site anyway are what keeps others on it and keeps the ad money rolling.
Truth social was born as a right wing platform from the beginning. It never had and will never have any casual users who are not right-wing. Going there and adding a left voice will not be very helpful as you would talk to an already established hard opinionated community. Twitter is unlike that, there are a lot of people who do not care about politics currently or are more casual about it. Though if you keep seeing more and more right-wing stuff, such people get normalized to that. Instead if there’s a left-wing voice there, any non-politicized person will have a look at the other side as well w. This is how you win over more people to the left, by being active on places where the most people will hear you. If you leave this place you just surrender and have more casual twitter users lean to the right as the time passes.
It doesn’t matter what Twitter started out as, it’s a company and can be bought and sold. It was bought by a fascist and is now a de facto fascist website. You posting on Twitter is not “fighting the Nazis”, it’s supporting one by giving him a better return on his investment. If everyone who actually had any kind of conviction in their beliefs left the site then the casual users would leave too because the only content left would be fascist content.
If you actually want to make a difference you have two options:
-
Buy the site from Elon Musk and ban them.
-
Stop using the website so it stops making money and becomes non-viable to continue operating.
-
No use talking in an echo chamber my friend. People in this thread have decided that they are superior for being here and that there are only two kinds of opinions: Wrong ones and their own.
Yeah, it couldn’t possibly be that you are actually wrong in this instance. Much more likely that everyone else other than you and that person are wrong, that makes sense.
The whole internet has devolved into a series of echo chambers now and everyone thinks their own chamber is superior.
We never should’ve killed flash games…
Bingo.
nope, they would also leave if they dont have anybody to fight with.
Bullshit. No one HAS to remain on Twitter. It’s a choice. Living in a fascist state for many isn’t a thing they get to chose not to do. So you can fuck all the way off with this apologist bullshit.
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… and a bunch of people continue to rub elbows with Nazis instead of deleting their accounts and moving to Mastodon. I wonder what the breaking point will be?
I’ll admit I’ve not deleted my Twitter account.
Mostly because I’ve not logged in since 2013? I think I had a single tweet, and that was a reply to some event that I was personally involved in.
Compare that to Mastodon, and I actually have followed a few people and even got into a debate about different voting systems that drew in a third party who turned it into an argument.
So mostly a wash.
Yeah, to delete the account, you have to log in, and fuck that noise
I made a purposeful effort to reset my password and login to delete my 10-yr old account. I had only followed a few people (mostly friends) and never made a tweet myself, but I’ll be damned if I would be associated with something owned by Musk. My internet sucks at home, but I refused to buy into Starkink as well.
Well, that’s gonna get solved for you pretty soon then. They’re planning to auction off handles from accounts that haven’t logged in in the last few months.
I haven’t deleted my twitter account because it’s floating in some kind of hell where I can’t sign in with my regular twitter credentials because there’s a Google account using my email (which is my account that I made), and I can’t sign in with Google either because my email is already associated with a non google twitter account (the exact same account.)
They had a way to link your Google account to your existing twitter account and something went horribly wrong.
If you are still on Twitter, you are making a statement whether you like it or not.
Sadly, my kids school only announces the buses have left through twitter :/
That is fixable. Make waves with higher ups. Many in education are trying to fight this same battle. There are better alternatives, as we all know. I also work in education.
Not sure how much x makes from me browsing cosplayers posts on firefox with adblock but i guess thats how much statement i am willing to make.
More than the 0 they’d make if you left
Probably less than they make from me posting gay porn to my 2k subscribers using firefox with uBlock Origin.
not directly making money but they can keep creditors at bay by showing not so ugly MAU numbers
i’m not gonna say to anybody that they should stop using twitter right now or they are morally evil, but I would say to everyone that it would be so funny that banks took twitter from him if things declined too much
Up until this morning, I used it to keep up to date in gamedev circles but I also made a Threads and bsky account in addition to Mastodon. I’ll be deleting it later this weekend.
If everyone did this…even maintaining X over a treansition period, we could all really send a message to big money.
What mistake?
IBM profited handsomely off the Holocaust… just like a lot of European and US capitalists did.
It was no mistake - it’s capitalism working as designed.
And Mao profited handsomely over a manmade famine. It really isn’t about the economic system.
Did IBM enthusiastically help out with that one, too?
There’s no design. It’s just human nature.
Capitalism is not “human nature.”
Stop making excuses for parasites.
I think they were referring to greed, not capitalism specifically. I think there’s a much stronger argument that greed is a part of human nature. Capitalism is just our latest attempt to harness it.
Making profit from mass murder is not human nature.
It is for some humans though and it has been like this for as far as we have records. It is human nature to sell out your kind for some.
It is human nature to sell out your kind for some.
If it’s (supposedly) “human nature” then why don’t all humans do it? You don’t see the entirety of humanity volunteering to be police and repress their own for the rich, do you?
There is a spectrum of human nature of course. It is why I said “some”. Not you or I, but there are plenty who will sell you out and that type of human has been a monkey on our back since forever. Sadly, we idolize many of them and given them their power, which begs the bigger question…is it our nature as a species to create the exploitative environments?
Sadly, we idolize many of them
No. We don’t. There’s a good reason they have spent uncountable trillions on propaganda - if we were to see them for what they are, there’d be no idolization. If it was “human nature” to idolize these parasites they wouldn’t need that, would they?
From what I understand, history has proven otherwise. Wars are always very profitable for certain groups.
When IBM, the guys that developed the computer system to schedule and track the holocaust itself, go “OY, cool your rhetoric Elon”, you know you’re well off the deep end.
Don’t worry, he still has their costume designer.
Could you take a screenshot when you post this stuff? I really don’t want to touch that pile of shit in any way.
I’m not sure a screen shot tells you anything that the url itself doesn’t. No need to click on anything.
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Why are you linking to Twitter lol take a screenshot like a normal person
I mean, you can read the url without clicking it, right?
It’s a big WHOOOSH, but I actually do respect all the people getting as far as reading ‘https://twit…’… and saying ‘fuck that’.
Why are you still on twatter?
For that joke. I generally block it with AdGuard Home.
I don’t think there will be much damage. It’s not as though this were some huge surprise. The only people left on X agree with him or don’t care enough to mildly adjust their habits. I saw that IBM “paused” their ads, but I’d bet a nickel they will resume them once this blows over. They know what Xitter is. All the corporations know and don’t care. This very article on the NYT website has a button to share it on Twitter.
Xitter is such an appropriate name
So true. I think in general human beings dont really care as long as it doesn’t affect them personally.
IBM: Oh shit! Not making that mistake again.
EV competition can’t come fast enough. I love my Model S, but when the lease is up I am not buying another Tesla unless the board removes him, like, completely removes him. No stock, no continued royalties or pay out, I want him gone.
What a piece of shit waste of a human.
The same board (largely) that had to settle a suit because they overpaid themselves by close to a billion? With his brother? They’re not gonna do shit, unfortunately
Guess I’ll get a Lucid Air Sapphire or something, I don’t know. I really don’t. I just don’t want to go back to gas. I’ve driven over 25,000 miles for $500 of electricity and zero maintenance and it would be hard to go back :/
If the model S is in your price range, look into BMW’s i4 or iX. They did what I’ve been wanting all car companies to do:
Take a current, great gas car and just stick a battery in it.
We love our i4. Fast as shit. And we came from a nice Model S.
2024/2025 should be a great time of competition for EVs! The biggest complaint is that there isn’t a good 15-30k option, most are 40-120k. If you can afford that though, plenty of non-Tesla options!
Are Polestar available in your country?
Ioniq 5 are great cars, and I believe still have charging incentives.
EV competition is here. There are tons of models now, and the Ioniq 5, for example, was rated much higher by many reviewers than Tesla models last year.
Where can I go to even look at EV options? Like, I’m personally aware that more EVs exist, but I have no idea where to even look at a simple list, which means I’m basically just remembering cars off the top of my head which were advertised to me.
Just hit up the major manufacturers websites. Almost every brand has several EVs now. They’re not hard to find anymore.
Edmunds has a section of their site devoted to EVs:
https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/
And some lists of what they consider the best ones (this is obviously subjective:
EV competition can’t come fast enough.
its already here since years brah
man, my only options are an I-miev, a leaf, or something like a prius or insight, or some other higher MPG small used car. I would say it can’t come fast enough, cause the secondhand market can’t come fast enough, but I don’t even know if that’s gonna be the case. Somehow I can’t picture a used tesla, or really most modern cars, for cheaper than like 20,000, or thereabouts.
I would say eat the rich but I would hate for someone to get that sick.
I’ll take one for the team.
I am also on team Eatlon.
It’s a date then
If you need t-shirts to show your team support, you can get them from the AFL-CIO.
Compost him
Your former pile of fertilizer is now weed killer.
The problem is people always forget that phrase starts with the letter B.
Given how many discounts X is giving advertisers, holy shit this dude spent 2 dollars to make 1
The point is to influence the election next year, not to make money
Influencing the election will make all the money.
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What?
🎵🎶 to the right now, to the left, take it back now y’all… cha cha real smooth🎵🎶
Wholeheartedly agree. Though I am not sure I would agree with your framing of it being ‘left’ or ‘right’. For sure the content seems to have more vitriol and divisiveness. I would use it in the past to follow scientists and their updates about research, it was really good for that.
Now the majority of those I follow post inflammatory comments or reactions to other content and I find the content writ large has decreased. I’ve so far increased my RSS, IRC, and mailing list usage, but it was nice to have tweets which are character-limited. I could skim through easier without having something catch my attention.
huh
This happens so much. Look at GOP policy. Religiosity, corporate dick-sucking, or spite, often overrides logical, cost-effective choices (well, at least the cost-effective choices for the American people. I’m sure their individual pockets are fine.).
Examples: subsidizing abortion vs. supporting another child in poverty, UBI vs. the admin and labor costs of running individual benefit programs, etc.
He spent 2 dollars to lose 100 more like
He’s sitting on a big enough pile not to miss it. I wonder how much of this is crazy and how much is political hedging.
I’d be surprised if he could liquidate more than 40bln today, look at Tesla stocks P/E, its a house of paper cards. Spacex is always reportedly on the edge of bankruptcy. Last evaluation I saw of twitter value from its lenders was around 17bln, subtract its debts, that’s about 4bln.
He really has bet the house, it now a question of how long he can keep going on Tesla stock backed loans and if the stock price holds.
Forbes still has him at 241B. I wish he’d run out faster to get his ass out of the news.
It was never about money
https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/14/23025343/elon-musk-twitter-takeover-ted-talk-quote-stock-buyout
It was never about money
“My strong intuitive sense is that having a public platform that is maximally trusted…”
Utterly hilarious.
Maximally hilarious.
IBM’s marketing team must be so glad to have gotten the opportunity for something good to show up when their company’s name and Nazi are searched together
IBM redemption arc is underway
That’ll require taking ownership of what they did rather than never admitting responsibility or fault let alone apologizing.
At this point, is any racist shit from that dude even worth posting news about? Like i get that there should be consequences but i do not see any. All i see is info about a man i really do not want to read anything about. Daily. Not even only on here. Why does the internet have to be so god damn us-centric that i can not escape their crazy billionaires?
Especially in the “technology” forum :/
Also whats up with all the shaming and animosity towards people that have a hard time leaving a platform that they have grown accustomed with. I feel it is a bit ignorant to blame the users for the actions of of a rich maniac simply aquiring whatever he pleases.
Probably because most of us left Reddit and know exactly how easy that was to do.
It’s easy to leave when you’re anonymous because you don’t exactly have built social connections (unless you choose to) such as the case in Reddit. But on social media where you’re not anonymous and most of your friends and family are there, such as Facebook and Twitter, it’s hard to leave. Besides, most people in real life don’t care about privacy and other concerns arising from social media. They get dopamine high from getting validation as well as they just got used to the platform to leave.
Dude. It’s an app, not your wife.
Ha easy for you to say if your social circle mostly go on the likes Facebook and Twitter.
I’m not being facetious or unkind here, but for many 10’s of thousands of years we have been developing meaningful social circles by seeing people in person. Just give it a go!
Urgh, i gotta say i too get the feeling that a lot of the animosity of reddit swept right over so i guess you are not wrong. Not my kind of beer.
Its not hard to delete an app and not download it again
It was brought to my attention lemmy has no native Mute support and not all apps have Mute. Its something they should support as a compromise for users who don’t want to leave, or otherwise, choose not to ignore topics.
I have no problem with No Fuck Monkey getting posted here. He is the richest technologist on Earth. X/Twitter is still a thing. SpaceX is a thing. That’s technology.
Never used the app.
Even easier then, you don’t even have an app to delete, you can just stop visiting a website.
Sure buddy. Hope you are vegan or i am superior anyways.
Great, if you were able to make that kind of dietary and lifestyle change then I’m sure not using a website would be no problem for you.
Removing a bookmark is easier to remove than an app
Yup, it’s still worth posting. Always call out bad behavior. Silence is acceptance.
Yes, as long as there are people who think he’s cool. Or think he’s not a total piece of shit.
He’s just about whittled his support down to the sort of people that cheer on that sort of shit, just like Trump
Once you get to that point News like this actually does help him. The people who care already know and so this just builds up his core supporters.
Just because the article is about a tech company owner doesn’t mean it’s related to technology.
Musk being a shitty person isn’t technology related.
Social media company losing a lot of money as a result is.
No, it really isn’t. A social media company’s income is business or financial related, not technology.
Does that mean any business that has a web platform or an app is valid content for this sub?
Twitter doesn’t just have a web platform, it is a web platform and used to be one of the largest. But I’d say that yeah, tech companies fall into my personal idea of what this sub is
So where is the “technology” in that? Just because it’s a social media company? There’s dozens of those now, so what? A company implementing a new API or front end website redesign or new service that uses technology is technology. Not this. This is just general shit. The Internet boom was in the 90s. You may have had a point back then when this stuff was actually new.
It counts as relevant if it’s in the community and people are upvoting it.
A lot of people will upvote anything on a list without even looking at the community or considering the relevance of the post to that community (/all, /subs, /new, etc.)
That doesn’t mean the community should be restricted in what they discuss
People are often wrong.
Why do you hate democracy? The people have spoken!
I mean, women and non-whites vote republican, so I don’t put a ton of stock into what the numbers say. I’m sure Florida or Texas could pass a vote re-establishing slavery, but that doesn’t mean the people are right.
Just because an article involves a tech company doesn’t mean it’s about technology. Twitter losing ad revenue because it’s owner is a nazi is not about technology; it’s about marketing, finance, and politics.
It would be nice if this community didn’t devolve into a Musk news feed like it did on Reddit.
Just because an article is about a tech company doesn’t mean it’s about technology. Correct.
This community is called “technology”. Also correct.
But people can post what they want and upvote what they want. So if this is what they want, then they aren’t wrong. Look at “trees”. Not a single damn tree in the whole place.
I really do recommend starting a community called techWithoutMusk and moderating it how you like. I’m sure a bunch of people would join. Or become a mod here, and change what people can vote on.
This is the opinion of !technology@lemmy.ml, but the !technology@lemmy.world mods have chosen to not take a stance against it time and time again. It goes to reason that they think it’s fine in this community for now.
Typical .world W and .ml L
Actually, I find it rather humorous that .world lets the users dictate what’s discussed, while .ml dictates what the users can discuss. It runs counter to the ideologies that .ml is associated with, yet it fits perfectly with most implementations of that ideology. Life imitates art indeed.
Yeah, except .world’s fucking weird when it comes to piracy and keep actively trying to horde the userbase for some reason?
You guys are sad af.
And you are salty af.
E: Y’all don’t like the occasional username joke? 😂
Annnnd he went full Henry Ford.
Not quite…Ford was still able to put together a descent vehicle on time and on budget
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True. Musk was actually able to put together a descent vehicle. Although not sure it was on time or budget… (:
I prefer the other spelling in this case
Freespace vehicle
The lunar lander was a Ford?
Car looking like an industrial dumpster, too small to carry a damn bicycle lol
The model A or the cybertruck?
Oh the cybertruck. Have you seen its back?
Maybe X should rebrand itself as Twitter to move away from this scandal.
Anyone have the full tweet? It seems to have been deleted.
I do, but it’s just antisemitic ranting that’s not worth amplifying
That’s okay, I found it. I’ll leave it here incase someone else is interested in the full story.
Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them.
I’m deeply disinterested in giving the tiniest shit now about western Jewish populations coming to the disturbing realization that those hordes of minorities that support flooding their country don’t exactly like them too much.
Is it a tweet he agreed to or a tweet he wrote himself?
Sounds like a racist trying to sound “educated”
He agreed with it.
He responded to it, calling it the complete truth
I actually don’t understand what this tweet even says.
First paragraph sort of makes sense grammatically (“Jewish people are speaking to white people in the same way antisemitic people speak to them”) - I mean WTAF, but ok, it’s at least a sentence that can be parsed enough that I can disagree with it.
The second paragraph makes zero sense. Like I actually don’t understand what the person is trying to say. When you strip away all the fancy words, I think he’s basically saying “the people that attack Israel don’t like Israel very much”.
But I mean, no duh, they don’t. But how does that relate to the first paragraph and why it’s even worth saying. And how does it relate to “whites” being supposedly attacked by Jewish communities?
Space Baby is an asshole. I’m convinced he’s a racist asshole. But I don’t understand what he’s trying to agree with here.
Yeah I tried, with the help of chatGPT, to translate that into english aswell, but the topic seemed a bit too hot for it.
What I think he’s trying to say is that since jews consider themselves an oppressed minority, they’re then more likely to be advocating for tolerance towards other such minorities aswell. In this context he’s probably refering to muslim immigrants in europe. However then he points out the fact that said muslims often aren’t especially tolerant of jews in general aswell as highlighting the apparent hypocrisy of non-jews often being treated as second class citizens in Israel by jews themselves.
I’m not sure if this is correct but that’s the best steelmanning I can come up with.
I think the main issue here is not so much the tweet above but the tweet this is replying to which was saying something like: “The people saying/implying that Hitler was right, why don’t you come out and tell what you’re actually saying” and then this guy goes like “Okay well here comes…” seemingly agreeing with the statement that “Hitler was right” and then Elon agreeing with the reply naturally looks pretty condemning.
I recommend that you delete it. Part of how hate like this spreads is by getting people to quote it to condemn it. That’s why I’m not posting the full quote.
I mean, it’s not a spell, it’s a sentence. If reading it will make it spread, as in more people will agree and support it, the problem is already there.
Nazi recruitment actually works that way. They used to even pay people to quote-tweet them with a condemnation in order to get more recruits.
I’m a Jew. I don’t know whether you are or not. But in my experience, the best thing to do with antisemites is to show the world who they are.
Also, If someone is accusing someone else of antisemitism I expect evidence. If they’re not prepared to provide it, it’s just gossip.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
You are correct… but I don’t believe that automatically means we should quote them. We can speak over them.
Sorry for the late answer. My point is that the problem is upstream to the issue of quoting/non quoting. A person who gets convinced by a nazi/antisemitic slogan is already a problem on itself. The quote is one of the N ways that person can be exposed to ideas that underneath they already support, and I don’t think this is a good reason to change the way that we talk about some issues. In other words, even if someone “gets recruited” by the quote, this is merely surfacing the problem, it’s not creating it.
That’s nonsense. If I were to say you’re spreading Nazi propaganda but I refuse to show anyone for fear of spreading hate, should people believe me?
If you actually were a Nazi would it be better for me to expose you with proof or would it be better to make unsubstantiated claims with plenty of room for doubt?
I’ve watched how this plays out repeatedly. Don’t repeat the lie is a pretty straightforward part of the response.
Respectfully disagree. Unchecked this gives whoever has the loudest microphone power to claim whatever they want out of context and most people will never find out the truth until it doesn’t matter anymore.
“This person said something really bad - we can’t tell you what it was but believe us, it was really bad”
The tweet posted is not a good message to spread. But my gauge is whether I’d be ok with the other side having the ability to determine what is and isn’t ok to spread, and I would very much not like Republicans (via legislative or social pressure) to have the ability to dictate what messages are too dangerous to share
The purpose of news is to lay out the facts, not tell me how to feel about something.
That’s a overly reductive. News organizations have a public duty that goes beyond just throwing out facts and letting society sort through the mess.
what duty is that?
Journalism is inherently a public service.
I don’t think that’s right, context matters. It spreads when it is shared uncritically and people come across it in a context where they don’t have their guard up. I believe it is preventative, to some extent, the other way around, when it is shared in a context ripping it to shreds.
People will come across antisemitism in the wild, and it is important that they learn to recognise it. This quote is pretty extreme, but it is important that people know that antisemites use words like e.g. “dialectical” as a dog whistle. The next time they hear someone say something about it when one of their facebook friends share something they might notice that they talk about “Hollywood elites” or whatever in the same way.
Without a good understanding of how antisemitism works we are all susceptible.
So I had to look up ‘dialetical’ to get it’s meaning as “logically constructed through argument and counter argument”. Why is that a dog whistle?
Yeah, it is also just a philosophy word. But antisemites use it to refer to “dialectical materialism”, which is a real term for Marxist philosophy, but by which they mean “cultural Marxism”, a thing they made up by which they in turn mean “the Jews are going to impose communism on us through psyops that convince us it is good, so we have to exterminate them.”
Basically, like much of their coded language, it is a reference to a conspiracy theory.
sounds like empty slander unless people can see it and make up their own minds about it
The Nazis count on that to get it amplified. I won’t do their work for them.
i think reality is a lot more complicated than it often appears to be, alas
By hiding the evidence, you cast doubt on the reaction to the statement.
Youre already doing the work for them.
You are doing their work for them. Most people here wouldn’t pay any attention to Elon if it wasn’t for people like you keeping them on the front page. This thread is effectively a re-tweet.
… This is nazi defending rhetoric. Do you understand that? Do you understand why eliminating the evidence and trying to hide it is defending and supporting the nazi?
Yeah censorship is the answer…
