I have to get certifications as part of my job and because all of my coworkers and I keep failing these really hard tests, we aren’t allow to study during downtime on the clock. We were told to study on our own time.
Getting certs is part of what is required for me to get bigger raises and get promoted and all that jazz. I don’t want to use my personal time for this. None of the people who are in this predicament do.
I have a meeting in a few days to discuss goals and I need to figure out how to tell my boss that using my own time for work shit is unacceptable.
I really like this job other than this one aspect of it and I don’t want to make anyone mad, but I need to express my boundaries and all that
Continuous Professional Development (CPD) is a trait of professional careers. Do you think doctors, nurses, etc only study on work time?
If you’re not in such a professional field, discuss remuneration for doing it in your free time as the company will benefit. You need to figure out how much you want for a raise, and if things fall through remind them you’ll be more employable and you can go elsewhere after passing. Maybe even push for an early raise now to keep you as it seems they like you.
If the company doesn’t pay me for a certification they want me to have, I will choose whatever certification/training to meet my requirements. If the cert is something I am interested, cool beans, otherwise the company can pound sand.
This is an intervention. All your posts are full of vitriol. You need to take some time out.
I don’t know about medical professionals, but Professional Engineers do, in fact, often get reimbursed by their company for the cost of earning their PDH credits.
100%, I’ll work on it at home, but you’ll be paying me for my time…
What is your field? What are the certs for?
Had the same conversation with my boss, and I specifically asked him “Is this certificaton job related or is it just so someone can check a box on a spreadsheet somewhere? If it’s job related, I’m absolutely down for it, what does the new role entitle and what’s the increase in pay for it?”
Response? Silence.
What was the certification?
That was the weird part, it wasn’t any one specific certification, it was any 2nd certification in addition to the job related cert I already had.
Well idk, my certs have multiple levels/advancements that you can specialize in, so…
Your time is your time. Work time or things related to work are work hours. I will die on that hill.
I’ve seen some good responses here, definitely take their advice.
Fuck you, pay me
Have you tried telling them to Fuck oof?
After repeated failures to pass a test, I do not think it is unreasonable for the business to stop paying for your attempts at a certification. Either directly via training sessions and testing fees, or indirectly via your working hours.
If the certs were not required, you have a point. If they are required to the point where OP has to have a discussion about not doing them with his boss, then the buisness needs to keep paying, drop the requirement or find new employees.
Required for promotion. OP has been demonstrating quite clearly that he isn’t ready for that.
If you only have to have a cert to be promoted, then OP can simply not do it and not be promoted. No conversation with his boss would be necessary.
It sounds more like the org need X amount of people qualified to have “gold” status with a vendor, so they pressure you to get it and make any promotion contingent on you having/gaining this cert.
You state “Getting certs is part of what is required for me to get bigger raises and get promoted and all that jazz.” So this is not a required part of your CURRENT position. If you want a better position, you will need to invest in yourself, using some of your own time. Sounds like the employer is already paying for the courses and tests, the rest is now up to you.
Do not go in to your meeting with a bad attitude, you will just piss off your boss. Accept that if you want a promotion and higher pay that you are going to have to give up some personal time to get there. Remember, they’ve already given you time, and you failed, multiple times from what you wrote, so now it is time for you to hunker down and do it on your own time.
Exactly this. I would be ecstatic if my employer paid for my cert tests. I pay for them myself and study on my own time, then leverage them during annual reviews to show why I deserve promotions and raises.
For context, I went from homeless to six figures because of this kind of hustle. If you want to just tread water then do so, otherwise you need to put in the work on your own time.
Educations tends to be off the clock. I wouldn’t expect them to let you work on schoolwork for a degree required for a promotion while on the clock either. My employer reimburses me for my continued education (CE) that’s required to keep my licenses, but it’s not something we get to work on during work.
This is ridiculous and not how most places function. Education benefits your employer and they get a ton of tax cuts and incentives. They even try to make you do it on your own time and get benefits like you had done it on their time. Don’t let them.
Obviously they can cause trouble and not everyone can find a new job so it’s a tough choice, but let’s not normalize it. CE is different, thats a degree and youre only getting reimbursed because they have a tax incentive to do so. If the business isn’t willing to invest in you they don’t have to, but then you know you should stop investing in them.
not how most places function
That hasn’t been my experience. Even places that pay for employees to get certified expect those employees to study on their own time unless they’re sent to formal training.
It depends on your job designation(and region tbh). Out of my personal experience in the states, If you are a “contractor” you are expected to pay for everything, but if you are an “employee” then the company is expected to pay for any additional training past what you brought to the table when you were hired. If they say that they are changing the job requirements and they now require you to get the next level license to continue your job, they must pay for that process, that is not something the employee is required to pay for.
Being said, it sounds like OP is being pushed a “if you want to be promoted you must do this” type of deal, which is completely fair as it’s an optional thing to gain more money, but you can’t push that as a requirement to keep your job without also putting yourself at risk of an employment case either under wage theft, improper dismissal or an unemployment claim if they did decide to fire the employee.
Maybe it varies by industry. I’m a software developer and even as an employee, I’m expected (but not formally required) to learn about advances in the relevant technologies, programming languages, etc. on my own time. If I didn’t and I was fired because my skills weren’t what the company needed anymore then I would get unemployment benefits, but I don’t see how either wage theft or improper dismissal could occur unless the company did something really weird.
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because all of my coworkers and I keep failing these really hard tests, we aren’t allow to study during downtime on the clock.
Well there’s your answer. It sounds like they are tired of making losing investments.
Their employer hasn’t made any investment if the employees have only been studying during downtime.
Unless you are willing to tell your boss to fuck off and go find another job, I don’t think it’s in your interest to tell him that. Someone with the mindset to tell you to study on your own time isn’t going to take it very well.
Either say fuck the certification and promotions and don’t study, or just study on work time surreptitiously, or suck it up and study on your own time to get the certifications to make yourself more valuable to get a job somewhere else where they don’t have that sort of mindset.
In the end, if it’s a valuable cert, that cert belongs to OP and can be used for future jobs, so personal time investment is acceptable.
If the cert is a “company cert” and is only usable within that company, then that’s training for the job and should be provided on company time and dime.
You have the right to be compensated for time spent studying for work. And he has the right to fire you for using it so ineffectively that you continuously fail.
Sounds like they were already being paid and failing.
We get X hours per week work time and tests reimbursed after we pass. If we fail, it’s on us. None are required, but free education and testing is great. Read a chapter or two each day, get more involved, won’t kill you. Hell, might even help land you a better job.
Its your education and your career youre cheating. OP needs to eradicate from him/herself their childish folley.
Note that my certifications are globally recognized (Microsoft 365, cloud management, etc) not internal bullshit.
using my own time for work shit is unacceptable.
Drop the word “shit” and you got it.
I’d use the word “shit,” but I’ve already established a certain level of communication with my manager and colleagues.
Then you probably wouldn’t have to ask on Lemmy how to express your objections. But OP did; so no “shit”.
I hate the idea of “personal” time. It doesn’t belong to my job by default. It’s all my personal time. If they want any of it they will need to pay.
Generally they do and it’s expected after you’ve obtained the certification with a raise. This is ongoing payment and will most likely exceed the hourly wage invested to obtain the cert
FULLY AGREE.
I am lending my employer some of my personal time. Therefor if they want more, they need to pay for it. This ideology that you are owned by your company is shitty and needs to stop.
If your company, for which your boss is an agent and therefore part of, is ASKING YOU to get this cert, then the study is labor done as a part of you position. You need to be paid for this work.
If the company is only making it a prerequisite for advancement, and not asking you to get it per se, then reimbursement is reasonable.
If you happen to have a Union then check with them.
