- Microsoft removes guide on converting Microsoft accounts to Local, pushing for Microsoft sign-ins.
- Instructions once available, now missing - likely due to company’s preference for Microsoft accounts.
- People may resist switching to Microsoft accounts for privacy reasons, despite company’s stance.
What’s crazy is the cybersecurity teams at big corporations actually hate this because its putting half their security in Microsofts hands. (And their security has been abysmal for a hot minute or more)
Corporations hate this shit too because they want to be using their internal, domain-controlled users, not Microsoft accounts that pass a ton of trade secrets to Microsoft. Is Microsoft training its AI on your trade secrets? Who knows!
So Microsoft is literally killing core competencies not just for end-users, but for businesses, too.
This will convince a lot of businesses the switch to an all Linux internal domain to be worth it, imho.
As cool as it would be to see a big shift to Linux, I think you underestimate how deeply entrenched companies are with Microsoft, so unwilling to change, the lack of support for proprietary software, and probably most importantly, the lack of IT support to manage a Linux environment.
I’ve been full Arch since December in my personal stuff and have been a Sys Admin+ for 9+ years. I would not say I currently have the skills to effectively administer a Linux environment. I could get there, and there is a lot of overlapping knowledge, like the network stack didn’t change, but I don’t think I’m an outlier.
I recently switched from being the sole IT guy at a small/medium company so a place with about 2k employees. I have maybe met a couple of people within the company IT that I think could make the switch relatively well, and 70% of others that just don’t got it.
Long term it would probably be fine, but that’s not how companies work in most cases. I just don’t think most places are willing to bite the bullet now to benefit later.
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Depending on how:
- much they make
- slow they are learning new things, and
- how long they remain employed
that could be the cheaper path!
And so much more fun for IT regardless!
I really wish it would, but the people that are the decision makers at businesses simply do not care what Microsoft does as long as it doesn’t impact their bottom line. Yes it’s incredibly user hostile. Yes it’s an administrative nightmare for the IT people, but for the suits that write the checks? It’s just the cost of doing business and they literally could not give a fuck if you paid them.
Maybe the execs don’t care and the IT folks don’t have the power to override them, but surely the legal department cares, right?
Its crazy their doing this while their CEO is being dragged on front of congress for their massive security breaches. Almost as if a monopoly is a bad.
What’s even crazier is that corporate customers don’t actually deal with this in any way! There’s no Microsoft account required on an Active Directory controlled PC.
Source: I am big corporate IT. Oh, and my personal AD deployment, outside of work
How are you accomplishing this? Provisioning the PCs to be part of the domain with a Powershell install script during automated setup? Because I was under the impression that this also had become a difficult task with 11. Because a Windows 11 machine doesn’t know it’s going to be part of the domain until it has been added to the domain. So, the only way I can see that working is like Powershell combined with WDS or something.
Source: Am small IT
EDIT: Also, the LTSC version of Windows 11 isn’t coming until later in 2024. So I’m very curious how this works with 11 specifically.
Windows 11 pro OOBE > get device online either via WiFi or wired network or bypass via commands > set up for school or work > sign in options > Domain Join. This asks you for local account name and password for a local administrator account and then drops you on the login screen.
LTSC 24H2 released sometime at the end of May? I installed it just recently in a VM…
Windows 11 Enterprise likely uses a different OOBE, I just tell it to join during setup. At work, everything is image-based and pre-configured so no standard OOBE.
Like most things at MS, those with the resources get everything they want while the little guy gets screwed.
Haha, I work for one of Microsoft’s biggest customers and they still treat us like shit. Trust me they don’t do favors for anybody. They honestly do not care.
Yup, you can DL enterprise Win11 for free to, just gotta know how to grab it from MS.
just gotta know how to grab it from MS.
Be a kind soul and share, please and thank you.
Shit, I was just looking at massgrave the other day, didn’t realize they had direct links. Thanks a bunch.
*smacks forehead
Ah yes, I forgot about the existence of Entrprise edition. I’ve just never dealt with a business that paid for such a thing, I guess.
During setup press Shift + F10, type
OOBE\bypassnro, press enter and have fun creating local accounts.That has been err “fixed” some time ago. You cant open the command window during setup anymore
You can. I downloaded the (german language) setup iso from microsoft about 3 weeks ago.
I tried it a couple months ago on a laptop, didnt work. But it also already came with a W11 install, maybe thats why
Tried it just yesterday with the multi edition iso directly downloaded from the ms web page.
But as I am in Germany and my region is the EU/in Germany we get a different treatment.Or it’s just the OS the OEM delivers that is BS :p
Are they (Microsoft) like suicidal or something? They are absolute madmen
I also think the same, I’m afraid we live in a tech-savvy bubble
Can’t you just you powershell and create a local user that way???
Yes, you can. But a lot of Windows users dont even know what powershell is.
And personally i think you shouldnt have to jump through hoops for what i consider basic functionality. They also make it near impossible to install Windows 11 new without having to resort to all kind of tricks to create a local account. Its a shitshow.
In my humble opinion :)
a lot of windows users shit their pants when they have to open cmd prompt lmao
Isn’t the point of an OS so that users don’t have to use cmd prompt? That’s why we aren’t using DOS anymore.
Thats because a lot of users dont really want to use Windows, or the computer in general. They use it, because they have to.
For the same reason, i would never know what to do when my car breaks down. Sure i can look under the hood and do this and that. But its not my area of expertise, and its not something im interested in.
I’m a sysadmin, i know almost everything about powershell and then some. That doesnt mean my users do though. For them, a computer is a magical black box thats supposed to “just work” by clicking here and there. Just like a car is to me :)
On new install without logging in a Microsoft account?
Can’t you just have an OS that doesn’t fight you constantly when you’re trying to use your computer the way you want?
NO!
Shareholders first
Not sure which shareholders benefit from this. I guess some must.
Those who have Apple shares worth more?.. But they’d be clueless to expect people to move to MacOS en masse if Windows gets unusable.
Presumably the ones that know how much MS gets for selling data.
Sure you can. You can also spend time disabling intrusive telemetry, you can also spend time reverting half the UI changes (not the other half though), you can also spend time removing integrated services you don’t use but are still running, you can (regularly) change back some settings that gets reverted every once in a while, you can also block some IP to prevent intrusive ads, you can toggle off part of the “user experience” that bloat the lockscreen…
Or you could, I don’t know, not have to do any of that and still have a working system that’s not trying to bend you over.
three trillion dollars
I just want Microsoft gone.
Same bro
I used to work in a Linux environment, I regret leaving that job all the time
the stupid thing is I still have my children and I adding our MS accounts after creating the local accounts, because I like setting the parental limits once for all the computers. I just can’t stand the stupid email-based usernames it creates when signing into the MS account during account creation.
It also feels like their insistence is doing nothing but hurting them. The average consumer who doesn’t know the difference between a local account and a Microsoft account won’t know or care about MS doing this.
But the users who do have a preference and do want a local account are just going to be irritated at it and give them bad press. They’ll eventually figure out how to make a local account anyway and it may be the push they need to migrate off of Windows.
At this point, the quicker people switch, the easier it will be for them.
You can learn linux today or you going to learn it next year. Choice is yours.
My whole company moved out of windows during the pandemic. It was all forced.
And surprisingly, after a year, it was pretty smooth.
Push your IT folks to do the same everybody. The money saved is significant. And the learning curve is annoying, but not as annoying as managing Windows.
It’s not the IT folks who need to be pushed. It’s the users.
Try and push “we’re all switching to Linux!” To a help desk team and let me know how that goes
You’re fired.
Well, yeah. I mean, help desk deals with users at their moment of peak incompetence. If 1 in 20 users can’t figure out that “Office” is now “Libre office”, help desk is going to be swamped.
The solution is to merge help desk and HR, so that something productive can be done about PEBCAK issues.
You seem to be implying that most people CAN learn linux. I’ve tried for 10 years now, on 4 different ossasions.
I don’t get it. I WANT TO get it…I don’t get it. But I also don’t want Windows 8, Windows 10, or Windows 11 especially.
…so I just stay on Windows 7.
And before anyone gives me flack about security, I’m not even 100% sure my firewall is on. I tinkered with it about 8 years ago, I don’t remember if I turned it back on, or left it off.
I THINK I might have AVG free anti-virus, from like 10 years ago…I honestly can’t tell you the last time I ran it.
People won’t switch to linux until the Android of PC distros comes out. The one that you can install programs by downloading a file. If thats .apk, fine. If it’s .exe, fine. Just as long as the process goes “go to website, download file, double click file, get gui for installation process…terminal? What’s terminal? Oh no, are you sick?”
Now on android, you CAN still use terminal, but I would guess that less than 1% of its userbase knows what that is.
Since a corporation wrote the first version of Android, and since Linux is something like 40 years old…but has never even attempted this approach on pc, I’m left to believe that the people who write these distros for free are actively against the idea of linux being adopted by the masses.
So no…people won’t “learn it now, or learn it next year”. They’ll just suffer through whatever bullshit microsoft says. And thats going to affect the world. Because now microsoft will have a worldwide network of spying on EVERYONE. (Except those on mac or linux, which is like 15% of the pc market)
I’m going to have nightmares about this post.
I’ll just add that nearly all linux distributions have a package manager you can access from the desktop. Simply open it up, find the software you want, and click to install. Not much different than going to the play store and installing an android app. The only time you need to do anything different is if you’re trying to install some obscure software that isn’t directly supported by your linux distribution, then you might have to resort to the command line.
ninja edit: Hell, even a Chromebook will see you right with some of your other complaints in this thread about Taskbars etc. Unless of course you’re averse to anything Corp / they spying on you in which case you’re fucked anyhoo.
When was last time you used Linux? Flatpak?
Many of these issue are resolved it seems.
Also, you are acting like windows never has any issues. If you just need to open browser and surf web, they work about the same.
But yeah, we sometime off before grandmas should be put on it. But any middle aged person can use it now imho
I don’t know what flatpack is…so I assume before that? Last time I intensely tried to get into it, was about 4 years ago. I tried not so intensely last year to turn my raspberry pi’s fan on. It is off, I want it on. Instead of a physical switch I could just flick, they decided to get fancy with it, and require terminal to turn it on. It USED TO work, but in order to fix an unrelated problem, I updated the system, and that broke everything. Now when you try to run the command it gives an error.
And the difference between Windows having an error, and Linux having an error, is if I have a problem on windows, I can type “Windows 7, (problem here), reddit”. It will give me a detailed set of instructions that tell me what to do. But with linux, I can find a set of instructions on how to fix the problem, and it always goes “first update everything. Now, do these commands in terminal.” The only problem is, linux is so fractured into so many different layouts and structures, and the help guides always assume your system is the exact same as their system, that you end up getting an error code. Now if you know linux, you know what commands to do to change/fix things. If you’re like me, you see some bullshit like “partician not registried”, and you have no idea what to do with that. So you google it, find 15 different answers. And with each one you try, you just make things worse and worse.
The difference between niave and stupid is that niave people haven’t been taught things. Stupid people can’t learn things. I’m linux stupid, and I would say the vast majority of people are linux stupid. However, despite how fractured Android is, I would say most people are either Android smart, or Android niave. With the difference being if they’ve ever used Android. I’ve never seen someone use Android for a day, and say “I can’t figure out how to set the video driver above 320x240p”. Or figure out why there’s no sound. Or figure out why the whole screen is tinted blue. Or why they can’t turn a fan on.
Linux users have this belief that “oh, everything is easy for me, so it must be easy for everyone”. What they don’t realize is how hard it is to get help running linux. Imagine a blind guy going to a french guys house, and asking where they keep their screwdriver. There’s no standard place. Mine is in my silverware drawer behind the hammer. But if I speak french, and you do not, if you’re blind how would you ever even know where my silverware drawer is, in a house you’ve never been? How would you even ask for help?
That’s the linux experience for me. Nothing works. I can’t fix anything. And the attempts at help I get just make things worse, because they expect my system to be like their system. And it’s not.
Have you tried Linux Mint? That’s pretty user-friendly. As long as it’s a .deb, you can double-click install through a GUI, no terminal needed. There’s an “app store” with most of your standard apps, like Discord, Slack, Teams, Skype or VLC, and it has an office suite pre-installed along with an email client. The first time you start, there’s a welcome screen that helps you through setting up the firewall, appearance (you can make it look like XP if you want), backups, NVIDIA drivers, and update manager you can ignore or manually update or automatically update. I don’t know your system, but it’s pretty intuitive for Windows users (I use a Windows 10 theme). I’d encourage you to give it one more try, if you’re still open to it.
Ubuntu is basically what you are describing.
I tried it back in 2012. I hated it. Little icons on the side of the screen. No taskbar. Blech.
They have a taskbar and stuff now I think
You tried it 12 years ago. So before Windows 8 came out? Think of how much Windows has changed in that time. Linux distros have changed as well, but they have focused on usability with each change.
I would say it is openSUSE Aeon.
An immutable distro that you install and it “just works”. Applications come in via the onboard Software Manager (using Flatpack). It is almost impossible to break, as the system itself is read-only. If an update should break something, the OS rolls back itself. It can do this, because it’s basically updating what you’ll get after the next reboot, not the running system. If something goes wrong, it reboots to the working version.
Still in development, but super stable.
Edit: spelling
Think I’m gonna try to replace my gaming desktop again. Its the last machine of mine still on Windows. I just hurt myself years ago by buying a 2080 TI
I am on nvidia hardware. popos worked no problems.
Nvidia open source drivers are around the corner too!
Its me, I wanted to take my arch install from my laptop because the rice is sexy. It was a bad idea.
look at this person… going straight for the hard stuff!
“I have my configs on github. I can just pull them down and be done.”
I fucken learned that day.
the better to farm your information to advertise too you and try to tie you in to more subscriptions.
Back in my day you could turn on the computer and operate it without anyone knowing. Our “internet connection” was demonic screeching from hell on the telephone and you didn’t need it to play solitaire.
Microsoft world have done it back then if internet was more prevalent and computers were just a little faster.
I miss those early days.
Computers were weird magic boxes with all kinds of zany and crazy shit you could put in them.
Games were just graphically impressive enough to lose yourself in, while not needing a super computer to run them.
The internet was a curiousity for nerds and not a corprotized information hoover adpocalypse hellscape for the exploitation of the masses.
Linux exists. Made for you, not money. For Microsoft user experience is just a side effect in getting profit. It can well be replaced with marketing, as Microsoft has demonstrated.
There isn’t a soul on lemmy that doesn’t know Linux exists
What about the people that don’t have a soul
Even gingers use Linux.
Can confirm, I’m ginger.
How can you use the internet then? The internet is like a mirror, you have to have a soul to use it.
whose soul do you have and how did you steal it from them?!
Yeah, the weekly sacrifices I have to do, are taking a toll on me
I sold mine to Odin and even I know about it. Now if youll excuse me I need to throw axes at people who dont like poetry or flyting.
What is this lie-nucks you speak of?
Come wait for the loonixus to Bash you up so u arch btw
Recently set up my Win 11 gaming pc and despite being tech savvy, I couldn’t get around the requirement without googling. I needed to run a fucking command in order for the Windows installer to let me create an offline account. That’s just so scammy. Imagine paying money for Windows.
Just bought a ROG Ally. It’s my first forced use of 11 and the device is great, however Windows has never been more of a pain in the ass.
You enjoy using it? Any gripes? How’s it compared to Steam Deck? Why did you decide to get it over Steam Deck?
Honestly, Windows is my only gripe. I did choose knowing it because I wanted not only Steam access, but xbox cloud/gamepass and any other launcher. When using the built in Armory Crate software, which is their custom gaming software, it runs great, almost flawless. The software toggles for framerate limits, refresh rates etc is really well done.
Hardware wise, it’s light which I love, the screen is really solid and audio actually is impressive. I know fully cranked specs will drain the battery quite quick. So far though with stardew valley and Xbox cloud, I’ve been surprised at battery life, and haven’t felt a need for an external battery yet.
Plus I paid less than the cheapest Steam Deck despite me getting the 512gb version too.
“Imagine people paying for Windows.” You had me up to the point that you explained why Microsoft might want to get rid of local accounts. You’re doing the thing that gives executives the idea of forcing online connectivity.
I’ll just wait until Windows 10 reaches EOL. My expectative is that, by then, someone has created an ISO with the option of offline accounts enabled or Microsoft just gave up with this nonsense. IrIf not, I have Nobara already set up in dual boot. Proton is getting better and better by the day, anyway.
When you realize that micro$quash has never not been incredibly scammy and skeezy from the get-go, the modern business landscape makes more sense.
Also, every day is a good day to leave microsoft behind forever.
Remove Ethernet or internet. They cannot force you to sign in if you literally can’t. Anybody who doesn’t want to and yes they recently removed it from the system so fuck windows and Microsoft for continuously being the shittiest and most popular OS but this is impossible to circumvent so it’s 100% foolproof for offline accounts. The only way is if they gave you a local database of every account but that would be stupid as shit.
IIRC you are required to connect to internet to continue the setup process in newer versions.
Yes, you have to unplug ethernet AND do the oobe/bypassnro command and reboot.
Antarctica too? What about people who don’t have internet?
I was able to circumvent all of this on my Windows 10 machine, by installing Linux Mint.
I didn’t even have to throw out my PC for not being good enough for Windows 11.
Wow! Tell me more!
Linux Mint (or Linux Mint Debian Edition), is one of the most user friendly Linux distributions out there. This is especially so for people used to Windows.
You can run Mint on a bootable USB drive, fire it up, and get a sense of how it feels running on your home setup. I’d highly recommend trying this with a few different Linux distros, to find one that you like.
What a beautiful thing
I too install Linux Mint, though Fedora Silverblue and Kinote is another good alternative.
This is what I’m going to have to do as well since my computer isn’t compatible with Win11. The only thing I’m worried about is gaming.
Depends on what you are playing, but gaming in Linux has come a long way. Some games won’t work due to companies not enabling their (rootkit) “anti-cheats” for Linux, but other than that, there’s more and more games that simply work by the day. Check out https://www.protondb.com/ to get an idea of what’s working at the moment.
I bought a SteamDeck as a way to test and see what works and what doesn’t on Linux. So far all my games have run with no issues.
I’m likely going to be posting and searching through a lot of Linux forums as Win10 gets closer to EOL.
There are games for me on Windows 11 that won’t run but will just fine on linux, and vice versa. For games that won’t run or run well enough on linux, I have windows dual booted, but that’s all i will use it for. Also I nice little boot U.I. that pops up every time I power on or restart my pc so i can pick which i want to load up.
Also, ProtonDB might not always be right with their ratings. For example, Dead by Daylight is marked as “Silver” though it’s been working perfectly with no tinkering. I think the ratings take time to improve?
You might misunderstand how their “ratings” work - they simply collect all reports and when people had trouble with the game before, and gave a negative or “tinkering required” rating, it will show in the overall stats.
Steam has built in Linux compatibility that you can turn on for all games and has been working great for me. Lutris and Wine provide other compatibility options.
Jokes aside I heard Fedora is good for gaming
Yes, seriously lol
Arch is it, u know this :)
Microsoft is unable to track local accounts as thoroughly.
I was finally going to attempt installing Linux Mint only to find out it is not as simple as some say. I know less than nothing about computers and then there are mirrors you have to choose from to download. I have no idea what would be a safe secure mirror.
Then you have to install other software I have no knowledge of to make a bootable drive…I am just not intelligent enough I suppose. I was hoping it was a simple download process.
I am just a tad bit frustrated!
It really seems more complicated than it is. I switched to a dual boot of windows and Linux mint about a year ago and it was super smooth, have basically never used the terminal. if you still want to try and have any questions, feel free to ask. Linux is really a nice feeling of being away from MS bullshit.
I want to figure it out if for no other reason than to prove to myself I am not too old to learn new tricks!
Hope all the other comments and suggestions are helping! Installation is honestly the only “hard” step for Mint. Once you’re done with this, it should be smooth sailing - and if you ever need any help, just ask!
I was hesitant to say anything at first but I am glad I did. Everyone so far has been wonderful and supportive.
Kudos to you all for helping a stranger with no skill or tech savvy. I WILL try again.
You have a whole community backing you! And once you’ve installed the OS, you’ll feel like you can conquer the world.
I am in the process of trying this again!
Welcome to the Linux community. Most of the software is free and open source. Most of the people who utilize this software are good people who want to help you. However, there are a few people who are total dick heads and who want to fuck you over. So because of that we build security into most of the things that we produce. For instance, if you were confused by why it instructs you to run a checksum after you download the software, that is because the actual authors of the software want to make sure that you downloaded their legitimate software and not some hack bullshit posted by somebody else. A checksum is just comparison of what you have installed to what you’re supposed to have installed and your computer will tell you if things don’t match up.
The process is actually simple.
It can be a little daunting at first because it’s new, but don’t let that discourage you. You can mostly ignore the whole mirrors thing, just pick one that is geographically close to you to hopefully get a better download speed. Outside of that, all the mirrors lead to the same file just in a different physical location.
Installing another software to make a bootable drive. You can use Rufus, which has a portable version so there’s no need to install it. I put a link below, there’s one in the downloads list that says portable.
There are plenty of step by step tutorials out there, however since Linux is very open, a lot of guides may give different advice and knowing what to/not to do can feel confusing. (For instance, if you have an SSD in your computer, you really shouldn’t use a swap partition unless you absolutely have to due to limited RAM.) In most cases though you can get by with the defaults when installing something like mint.
That being said. You could simply make the boot stick and try out the live version of the OS before committing to wiping any of your drives to install the OS. Just know that running the live version from the boot stick will be slow, it may take a little time for things to boot which is normal since you are running the os off of a USB stick.
If you would like some help I could try to give you some guidance. I would just want to know the specs/model of your computer so I can make sure I lead you in the right direction.
Appreciate the link!
Rufus is what the instructions said to download and then a list of prompts to enter in the command line. I understand none of those prompts, literally a completely different language.
I am using an old laptop that has windows 7 on it. Figured it didn’t matter if I screwed that up since it was old and not in use.
What instructions are you following? Last time I used Rufus on Windows, it had a graphical interface with reasonable default settings and zero messing around on the command line. (I mean, I sometimes did once I was booted into Linux, but I was using distros where that’s not unexpected.)
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I wanted to add an additional reply thanking you again for the screenshots.
These visuals helped put the worded instructions in context for me so I was successful in creating and installing the bootable drive.
I just downloaded rufus and a mint iso, here’s a couple screen grabs.
Launch rufus, and plug in your usb stick, it should show up under device.
From there click select on the right side. Browse to where you have the ISO you got from the linux mint website and select it.
Once you get back to the other screen hit start.
You shouldn’t need to mess with any settings unless you are using secure boot.
Once that’s done, you should restart and boot from the USB stick. Depending on the model of your laptop there are different methods to get into the bios to change the settings to allow booting from usb. If it goes into grub mode it will look like a command prompt with a few selections. Just hit enter on the first option and it will boot into the live usb.
Once you are in the live usb mode, it’s basically all gui to install, test, etc.
Nowadays the terminal stuff is not really needed for basic use, so you should be able to get spun up pretty easy.
Thanks for the screenshots! I have saved this comment for reference. I plan to try again tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
I wanted to add an additional reply thanking you again for the screenshots.
These visuals helped put the worded instructions in context for me so I was successful in creating and installing the bootable drive.
To answer your first question, ALL of the mirrors are safe. The idea with mirrors is that you choose one that is geographically close to your location (same country, maybe the same region or state) to help reduce lag in downloading the files. Any selection is valid, all of the mirrors will have the same content, but for your location some mirrors may simply be faster or slower than others.
One other thing you might run in to is different types of installers. Some may be a very minimal install which only give you a command line, while others will provide a fully configured desktop. You might also see an option for a “Live” version – that is something you put on a bootable memory stick and you can test out a working version of the operating system without actually changing anything on your computer, but all of your settings will go away when you reboot.
I haven’t used Mint so I can’t provide specific info, however some things that are common to ANY linux desktop – You probably want to start with printer drivers (install CUPS) and some office software (install LibreOffice). For internet access, Firefox and Thunderbird are good choices. LicreOffice, Firefox, and Thunderbird can all also be used on Windows if you want to check them out ahead of time. There are many lists online that can point you to equivalent software, so like if you use Lightroom on windows, you might try Darkroom on linux. basically you just need to make a list of what Windows software you use and then install a similar package in linux.
Yes you will need some time to learn the new operating system and all the new software, very little will be 100% exactly the same, but they are “close enough”. You figured out how to use all these things once before, so you can do it again, and it will definitely be worth the effort.
The hard part is getting the software on a usb drive to use on the old laptop. I haven’t figured out what the instructions mean in order to implement. I have a lot of learning to do.
Don’t feel bad, that’s a shitty process even for those of us in IT. Sometimes it doesn’t work for certain models of memory sticks, sometimes something on the computer gets in the way of booting to the drive. I recently worked on some servers where I had to disable EFI, grab a 15 year old installer to get linux booted up on it, then switch to the newer installer to complete the process. So far Dell has been the worst (but also the most frequently used) I’ve had trouble with for getting linux installed. Unfortunately the solutions usually involve combinations of disabling EFI, changing the hard drive to a different mode, or even changing what mode the memory stick is booted with (all selected from within the BIOS at boot time), and it’s not always the same process even for the same release of a machine.
It’s not you, it’s Microsoft working with the manufacturers to make it difficult for people to switch.
Microsoft ignoring Linux exists is prime anticompetitive behavior. It causes problems that Linux installations have to go around. I learned that when installing a dual boot configuration.
I think more people would use Linux if it were a simpler process. The ones I know fed up with Microsoft have gone with Macbooks.
Just curious, but have you ever tried installing Windows from scratch on a new computer? I’m just wondering if your comparison of “simpler” is the same installation of both operating systems, or if you’re comparing something that somebody else set up for you to something you’re doing yourself?
And yeah, it DID used to be dead simple… throw in an installation media and boot up the machine. These days there’s so much garbage in the way that they’re complicated the whole process without much gain.
Just curious, but have you ever tried installing Windows from scratch on a new computer?
I do not believe so. I have only factory reset it.
I have. Used a disc and everything. It takes forever, but it’s pretty dead simple.
They really ought to include this info about mirrors on their website. They have an aside about checking file hashes which can give paranoia to people who don’t know what’s going on.
Ubuntu used to send you a CD-ROM ready to use free of charge back in the day.
I’ve done this whole process hundreds of times and it’s straightforward now, but the first times where really confusing, I totally understand you.
you basically want to put the installer file in a USB, but you can’t simply copy and paste it because it needs to be “bootable”, that’s why you use a tool like Etcher or similar.
any link in the official Linux Mint page will point you to reputable sources so just pick the first one. the beauty of open source is that it’s not as centralized as a big corporation’s software, you have choices, confusing at first, I know, but it’s worth it once you get past the learning stage
Then you have to install other software I have no knowledge of to make a bootable drive
Eh, this is the same for windows as well, you always need some sort of installation medium to boot and install from regardless of OS.
I suppose it is automatic on Windows so it has the illusion of being easy. I can honestly say, I have not had to install anything after I hit the update button. I am also old and don’t use a computer every day.
I suppose it is automatic on Window
No it’s not… When you have no OS on a computer you still have to create the bootable USB for windows in the exact same way as with Linux, you still need to boot with it the exact same way and follow the installation instructions. The process is identical with the same level of “complexity”.
My apologies. My laptop had Windows already installed therefore I haven’t had to do anything other than turn it on and follow the onscreen instructions.
The difference is OP probably got their device with Windows already installed and they only needed to go through the setup steps. Setting up the installation media really is the biggest barrier of entry to linux right now. A lot of distros are so easy to set up with a step-by-step gui installer, but a lot of non technical users don’t have the knowledge, skill, or motivation to download an iso and create a bootable drive.
I mean, obviously…but that’s not really something that’s going to change. And today it is a seriously low barrier to pass, I’m not sure how it could go any lower, aside from.maybe buying a pre-made USB stick for installation. It already requires literally no skill other than basic reading comprehension. There is a plethora of step-by-step guides online, the only thing really keeping people from switching is their own inertia.
Have you met people?
Batman: He must have friends.
“Have you met this guy?”
It’s similar, but not the same. Most Linux distros require you to download a third-party program that people’ve never heard of. Windows gives you an all-in-one program from their official website, thus it’s easy to trust. Arguably Linux’s solution is better because you can use that program for multiple purposes. That and I think the trust factor is overblown as the distro will recommend the software and it’s not hard to find people vouching for it, so if you trust the distro you may as well trust the program.
All of the mirrors listed on their website are safe. Just pick one close to you. If it downloads too slow, you can try a different mirror. If you know how to use bittorrent, you can use their torrent link. It will typically be the fastest.
Download any mirror. Accept any prompt. Where you are going, chaos is your friend, and the beautiful electric sizzling is your orchestra.
Edit: also just watch a vid theres tons out there.
Dont you worry, mint provides a detailed step by step tutorial on how to do things:
https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
I think they were following the guide based on what they said was frustrating them. I think Mint could simplify the instructions for non tech people and remove the asides like checking file hashes.
Everyone always says Linux is easy these days. Until you start asking how to actually install it.
For mainstream distros it’s pretty easy
- Download an ISO
- Install Rufus or another media writer
- Write the ISO to a flash drive
- Boot the flash drive
- Click install
- Follow the prompts until it’s installed
This is good feedback, the Mint team could definitely streamline things, maybe even with a “help pick”.
Because it’s not immediately apparent which to use (Cinnamon/MATE/Xfce).
I’m not sure how the resolve the mirror issue, sadly.
The cost of serving the data directly would be very high, but doing so would avoid scaring people. Unfortunately, it’s hard for them to 100% guarantee every mirror is safe (even though they are!), which means they have to leave instructions on how to verify.Selling pre-loaded USB sticks would be very cool, but people would have to be interested enough to spend £20.
Selling pre-loaded USB sticks would be very cool, but people would have to be interested enough to spend £20
I am one that would happily purchase something like that. I finally made the bootable drive but am not sure if the install is verified. There was no sha txt file to compare. I just haven’t figured it out yet
The sha txt file should’ve been available alongside the iso file from the mirror you downloaded it from. Honestly, as long as you used one of the mirrors that the Linux Mint website provided, you should be perfectly fine.
Is there a way to check it after install before it is connected to the internet?
I did use one of the mirrors on the Linux download page.
It should be fine. If you’re truly worried, go here:
https://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/linuxmint.com/stable/
And click the version of Linux Mint you downloaded - it’s probably 21.3 - and then download both sha256sum.txt and sha256sum.txt.gpg by right-clicking -> “save link as…” to download the files themselves.
After that, verify the iso you had in your downloads folder by following the instructions here:
https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/verify.html
Again, as long as you downloaded from one of the mirrors linked on the Linux Mint download page, you should be absolutely fine. This step is a just-in-case, for your personal ease of mind. It will, however, need you to open cmd.exe and copy the code inside the green boxes into the terminal and press Enter. There’s a pictoral guide if you’re doing the verification on Windows still, right here:
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=291093
Let me know if you get stuck!
Thanks. These are the instructions having a time with. I am going to take a break. I think I have just stared at it too long overthinking it!
If you don’t want to do that, then you can buy a bootable drive (for example here: https://www.shoplinuxonline.com/mint21-usb.html)
Using a different tool to create a bootable drive is just a part of installing any operating system, not just Linux. If you ever need to install windows on a pc that doesn’t have it installed you will see the same process.
Switch to Linux where all accounts are local accounts.
Linux supports network accounts of all kinds.
They even have a guide for that! https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install
Linux supports network accounts of all kinds.
I didn’t say it didn’t support network accounts, but you have to have a local account set up to sign into those network accounts. You can set up your computer fully without being connected to the internet and it won’t give you grief about it.
you have to have a local account set up to sign into those network accounts.
I’m pretty sure that’s false. You can create an account right from OS install that is backed by something like LDAP (assuming you don’t count the root user as an “Account”)
rootdoesn’t have to support login either, and I think being able to login is a pre-requisite to being “an account.”
UpperBroccoli really wants Microsoft gone after it pisses him off everyday for years
UpperBroccoli is right
The Microsoft cycle:
Microsoft does thing nobody likes -> people complain -> some people threaten to switch to Linux -> a few of those people do but most people don’t -> They make some excuse and claim that once Linux reaches some arbitrary milestone they’ll switch (Adobe support, better game support, better software support, etc) -> most of those people forget (they’re a minority, the vast majority of people never cared) -> Microsoft notices and they became even more emboldened to make their products worse -> repeat
If you want change then you need to break the cycle
Some of us manage to break the cycle, but despite how much I love Linux (ups and downs) I understand that it isn’t for everyone currently.
What most people want is a stable system they can just use without understanding much if anything about how the underlying systems work. They don’t care that wifi drivers can be fixed through a few terminal commands, they rail against the fact they have to do much of anything at all besides click [Next >]. And I can’t blame them; that’s what Microsoft has trained them for.
So many people with random toolbars and junk extensions in their browsers because the [Next >] button is how they get past whatever problem they have. The average user isn’t very tech savvy, and it takes someone with a desire to learn to truly thrive in a Linux environment.
I’ve converted my mom to Kubuntu, and she does well, but she’s also an outlier (she has an expired CCNA certification).
Linux suffers from a catch 22: there’s not enough users because there’s not a lot of commercial support because there’s not enough users because… And the people who are donating their time to make it better are saints as far as I’m concerned, but there’s only so much people can do for free. Things truly have gotten better, but until more typical user types can adopt Linux with little to no fuss, not much will change.
And that fact hurts my soul.
The problem is the average user won’t use Linux unless it comes included with their PC.
I was at the make excuses stage until late last year when my excuses were fixed. Booted my windows install maybe four times since then, and that was mostly to grab files from it haha.
Some people like you and I actually switch to Linux, but we’re the 4% and we need to remember that.
It used to be about 1%, so actually huge gains have been made
I acknowledge that, the rise has been absolutely incredible. However, I doubt it’ll reach above 10% (on the desktop globally).
I did manage to switch to Linux. I can understand though why people are hesitant, there are still things that are tough in Linux, or near impossible in some cases. That’s despite having used Linux on and off for years.
That’s because what people need to understand is that fundamentally Linux is not a drop in replacement for Windows, its not some open source copy. It’ll never have full software compatibility, it’ll never run the same, it’ll never look exactly the same, and it’ll never be the same. The sooner people accept that the sooner people understand what their options are. For me that’s an advantage, I like the UI on DEs like Cosmic, I love the Unix filesystem, I love the terminal and how powerful it is, I love package managers, and I love the customizability of it all.
I don’t think something needs to be identical to Windows to be a good replacement for it. I think there should be a replacement for Windows, and distributions like Linux Mint are that replacement for some people.
I also think that parts of the Linux ecosystem have major problems. Not necessarily problems with the kernel itself, but problems with the surrounding software like programs and user interfaces. Wider application support would be a start. Some distributions and parts of modern Linux systems can be unnecessarily complex or downright esoteric. Some features like HDR have very poor support, and are difficult to enable/setup where they are supported. It’s also difficult for developers to publish to Linux because of the wide variety of different Linux systems. Flatpaks and snaps help with this obviously but have divisive in the Linux community for one reason or another.
I don’t think something needs to be identical to Windows to be a good replacement for it.
I said drop in replacement
Wider application support would be a start.
No organization is willing to pay companies to support Linux
Some distributions and parts of modern Linux systems can be unnecessarily complex or downright esoteric. Some features like HDR have very poor support, and are difficult to enable/setup where they are supported.
That’s because organizations like the Linux foundation primarily serve enterprise and server customers, they only need a good enough UI so that’s what desktop users get. Nobody is paying money for Linux and few people donate.
It’s also difficult for developers to publish to Linux because of the wide variety of different Linux systems. Flatpaks and snaps help with this obviously but have divisive in the Linux community for one reason or another.
That’s because the current system allows distribution maintainers to decide if they want their distro to be bleeding edge or stable.
TLDR: Desktop Linux users get the scraps of enterprise and server Linux
No organization is willing to pay companies to support Linux
Well that’s a lie. Lots of companies use Linux servers, Linux embedded devices, even Linux desktops for programmers or engineers. Android devices are everywhere too.
That’s because organizations like the Linux foundation primarily serve enterprise and server customers, they only need a good enough UI so that’s what desktop users get. Nobody is paying money for Linux and few people donate.
One of the most common uses of Linux is smartphones. Chromebooks are also fairly popular. It’s more that the kind of people that use Linux desktops aren’t happy with smartphone like functionality and customisation.
The better question is why aren’t people supporting desktop Linux? We have increasing market share after all. My guess is a combination of fragmentation and the fact that the user base aren’t the kind of people they want to sell too. It’s hard to sell MS Office for Linux to your average Linux enthusiast who might even be an Open Source purist. They are also more likely to jailbreak or pirate your product.
Well that’s a lie. Lots of companies use Linux servers, Linux embedded devices
I mentioned that
even Linux desktops for programmers or engineers. Android devices are everywhere too. One of the most common uses of Linux is smartphones.
They make money because they’re proprietary, sell peoples info, and because of that they represent everything the free software movement fights against. I use Linux because it supports the free software movement, not the other way around.
The better question is why aren’t people supporting desktop Linux?
It’s a combination of a few factors, developers are pressured into not asking for donations (users need to actively find their website to donate), the vast majority of Linux software is free of price, and people don’t want to pay money for their operating system.
It’s a combination of a few factors, developers are pressured into not asking for donations (users need to actively find their website to donate), the vast majority of Linux software is free of price, and people don’t want to pay money for their operating system.
I am talking about businesses supporting the Linux desktop with software, not about the OS devs themselves.
They make money because they’re proprietary, sell peoples info, and because of that they represent everything the free software movement fights against. I use Linux because it supports the free software movement, not the other way around.
This is the reason why most businesses don’t want to support Linux.
It’s also difficult for developers to publish to Linux because of the wide variety of different Linux systems.
I disagree there. The issue is that in Windows people bring over their own version of libraries they compiled on (the millions of .dll files) and you can even look in your Uninstall Apps settings where there’s a bunch of MS specific runtime bundles to see that’s even an issue in the MS ecosystem.
In Linux, developers have relied on the library versions just being there. It is, I’d argue, the most compelling reason package managers basically had to come into existence. On the flip-side this can cause issues where there is some version on the system by the package manager that replaces another version. And something not a part of that package management system isn’t a part of those dependency checks and if they don’t put the libraries with the binaries…well it is just luck if you have them all or if other versions can support those library calls in the same way still.
In Linux that is all those .so’s in /var/lib and stuff.
You don’t really see many proprietary things using package managers and those that do are packaged by someone else and are in some sort of repo that isn’t part of the vanilla install because of legal caution.
Companies that made their money on porting games to Linux prior to Proton basically causing them to shutter Linux porting would put their .so’s in with the game bundle themselves, just like you see happening in Windows when .dll’s are inside the actual program’s folders.
However, the more that this sort of dependency management has become abstracted by development suites that take care of this for the developers, the less they understand about it.
Flatpaks actually take care of this and it is one reason they are so popular. They figure out (well that’s a simplification) those library dependencies, sandbox the apps with those dependencies so the library paths don’t interfere with other flatpaks or the base system itself. People complain about this as a con because “the download is BIGGER” even though flatpak doesn’t install the same runtimes over and over again, so once they are there, the download may still be bigger but the installed storage isn’t.
Anyway, yes Linus Torvalds complained about the “Linux fragmentation” issue but it was about DE’s not the state of the development ecosystem itself as I recall, though the rant is very old, so maybe I don’t remember all of it.
Wider application support would be a start.
Sure, but that’s not a Linux problem, that’s a developer problem. Linux supports application development just fine. It is a kernel and the surrounding ecosystem is the operating system after all. It is developers that don’t support it. That isn’t really something Linux in and of itself can effectively solve. Users have to increase and developers supporting applications for Linux will also increase. The classic Linux Chicken and the Egg problem but it is capitalism and that’s just going to be how it has to work.
The most important part of this is:
the vast majority of people never cared
We make our happy little bubble here to be outraged in. The world at large carries on without caring. Just in the past few years, there’s been the Reddit API change, the WhatsApp ToS change, the YouTube dislike button removal, etc etc. A small minority (like us) complains endlessly. The rest of the world shrugs and accepts enshitification.
People have accepted that they’ll never have privacy, that they dont own the products they purchase (physical or digital), that not only do they not control their technology but fundamentally their technology controls them, that every few years they’ll have to replace their devices or the manufacturer stops supporting them, people own nothing and are happy.
Accepted isn’t the right word. I think consumers “voting with their feet” just isn’t that relevant when it comes to these issues. This model of thinking works when it’s about the product offering. Bad product? Too expensive? Demand dwindles.
But the issue doesn’t directly impact the product offering, consumers won’t “vote with their feet” in significant numbers. Worker exploitation? People will still buy cheaper clothes. Oil money dictatorships? Cheap luxury airlines. Privacy invasion? But all my friends are on there. I could go on.
The self-correcting market model is flawed. For these issues, strong government intervention is needed. It’s possible that a competitor comes along and they’re able to capture the market, but that will only happen with a superior product offering. But not because of different TOS or whatever people don’t consider part of what they’re buying.
Finally, someone gets my point. Capitalism inherently makes products worse and more expensive, the flaw in your argument is you think it can ever be contained.
People don’t know and don’t care. Privacy isn’t an issue on anyone’s mind (just like climate wasn’t 20 years ago). People don’t know or care about digital media ownership issues.
People know, they see their digital media being removed from them and they know that their devices spy on them. Everyone talks about it yet nobody cares.
I disagree. I think it’s more helplessness than apathy.
I don’t approve of all the spying, but I don’t “own” any congress critters, so what can I do? I can’t even opt out of the spying by cancelling my Internet plan and smashing my phone – there’s still tracking through CCTV, face recognition, license plate scanners, etc. I’d have to move to some remote middle of nowhere and live as a subsistence farmer – and even on the way there, I’d be thoroughly tracked. There’s no escape, it’s like we’re all in a giant digital cage.
I just want a consistent name for my home dir
