Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I’ve heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
I have been surprised by how racist many Brits are
sexist too.
Definitely agree on the “Europe is just racist in a different way.” Outside of the obvious ones (like Middle East & Africa), I’d also add racism/xenophobia against “Eastern” Europe (like Poland), which might surprise Americans because they’re still white.
Just ask a Mexican person what it’s like to travel to Spain
Ask a Spanish or Portuguese person what it’s like to travel to France or Belgium. Italians used to face racism in other European countries a few generations ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Dogs_or_Italians_Allowed
I’ve had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there’s something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more “it is the way it is” attitude. I’ve heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less “hate for hate’s sake” but instead “it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct”. Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they’re racist.
blacks
While we’re on the topic, I think “black people” is the preferred term (in general it’s adjectives over nouns, like “gay people” vs “gays”)
Hey fair enough. I use whites so I tend to use the same kind of term in the other direction, too. I don’t mean anything insulting by it
I’ve heard people of all types use the word ‘blacks’ I think it’s a regional thing.
It’s more likely a field thing. People who work in fields highly dedicated to equity (esp. those working in healthcare) are especially concerned with their language and so create style guides that people outside those fields have gleaned from.
Example:
I’ve heard Europeans call Turks ‘filthy’ and ‘roaches’ and Africans ‘monkeys’. And don’t get me started on the things said about the Romani.
I don’t think there’s a difference in how tribalistic or vicious it is.
Weird. I haven’t.
Wow, you’ve really succinctly put it best! Being a European myself, this is how I constantly feel when I hear racist shit in my daily life (mainly from family).
It’s like, people here just can’t even fathom that what they’re saying is racist, that they’re racist, because to them what they’re saying is just a simple fact of life that everybody accepts. They don’t show open animosity towards minorities or throw racial slurs like you’d see more in America (though there is definitely some of that here too don’t get me wrong), but it’s a very casual, low-key form of racism where folks comment on X group of people all being one way and no one batting an eye for example.
And if you so much as suggest they’re racist, or the country they’re in has or had issues with racism and other issues of oppression, a lot will legit fight you tooth and nail over it because they can’t handle the notion of it.
It’s really freaking weird and took me a lot of time to be conscious of it myself, since I grew up surrounded by this sort of attitude.
And it’s not just right-leaning people doing this. Some minorities like the Romani are openly discriminated by just about everyone across the political spectrum, the degree just varies. And then based on the country you’ll typically see a lot of Xenophobia towards the bigger migrant groups.
Making sure I’m reading this right…I know a guy who claims he isn’t sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren’t as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn’t sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
Is that similar to what you’re saying?
Did you type ‘females’ instead of ‘women’ for the sake of the argument or did you get caught up in it as well?
Guess I got caught in it. Just looked it up and didn’t realize until now that female wasn’t an acceptable word to use. TIL. Thanks!
The easy way to understand and remember is that “female” is an adjective the vast majority of the time, and it’s usually misogynists and incels using it as a noun.
I think mysoginists just have a lot of spotlight on them, or are vocal. I hadn’t been aware of “female” being used as a slur before it was pointed out here on Lemmy. I think “female” as a noun is still used neutrally far more often than as a slur.
As an adult female human, I have never been called a “female” in a positive or neutral tone. The key point is that you basically never hear people calling men “males” anywhere outside of scientific discussion.
Not a bad way of comparing it tbh
And even then the European countries that feel they’re ahead of the rest tackling racism it’s usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn’t have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
Very true
Not Eurpoe specifically but I shared a rather basic comment on YouTube joking about Great Britain causing famines in India but its okay because they brought trains and the result is a mile long thread of pissed off UK suckers telling me I’m wrong, that there was no fammine, the Wikipedia article and its 300 sources are fake, and that the British empire totally went around modernizing civilization for the benefit of humanity. (Was a post about Irish complaining about a very crappy Irish History book made by a British author)
So I guess for any of those people, no GB was just a colonist empire racing to exploit the hell out of resources faster than France, Spain, and Portugal. The technology they brought was used almost exclusively in their conquest operations (Trains used to transport goods and resources) and they actively supported and supplied opposition groups to destabilize and overthrow governments similar to what the USA does today.
I mean seriously, they held immense power over China via opium and are responsible for practically every shill state in the middle east because they provided weapons to overthrow the Ottaman empire.
The iconic pan arab flag is actually a British designed flag given to all the opposition groups they funded to break up Ottaman power.
They fell apart after exhausting their power in WWII and the USA came in to save them so now they gleefully cheer about how they carried in WWII with intelligence services as if Germany couldn’t have easily invaded the entire nation overnight had Hitler not been an incompetent moron.
Thankfully, after exploiting half the world, they totally didn’t spend the last of their power screwing over every former colony into some long term problem that they could exploit without the need for military power.
The question should read
“Americans; give us your baseless opinions of a continent you don’t understand, and then get a rage-on in the comments when you are laughed at”
Not everyone wants to live in some EU places because those areas are too densely packed. Vienna has been voted the most livable city many years in a row, but most residential areas I saw were filled with apartments, condos or townhomes.
Laicite is illiberal. Leaving aside that it explicitly favors Christianity over other religions, it still violates human rights, specifically free expression.
They hated him because he spoke the truth.
The culture of France stems from a long-standing Christian default. In language, dress, behavior, holidays, etc. There’s no need to ban “Christian” clothing, for example, because Christian clothing is western clothing and it’s everywhere. France can try to use the excuse that these material descendants of older, religious-compliant garments are now “secularized,” but Laicite precludes the potential normalization of other cultural influences entering that space in the name of some sort of French cultural purity.
If people want to wear a hijab not because of religion but because it’s trendy, would that be different? France says no.
But is that any different than a woman choosing to wear a “secular” skirt or dress long enough that you can’t see her ankles just because it looks nice? Do French offices chastise employees if they wear black after someone dies? Do they care as much if someone opts not to wear mixed fabrics, even for religious reasons?
This is why Laicite is flawed, because it only recognizes religions of the “other” as modes of expression while basically giving free reign to Christians to continue expressing their religion because their practices are “normal”.
Don’t even get me started on the church taxes in Germany.
Most of the world dislikes you, and are not happy when they run into you on the internet. Mostly because it’s been almost 600 years & y’all still haven’t gone home.
It’s called: “soccer” !!
soccer is an abbreviation of associated football. which apparently had rather upper class implications in the UK and as such the word never caught on with the hoi poloi
that message may come from us or canada, the rest of the world would side with europe
Hey, don’t leave Australia and New Zealand out of club soccer, too. Soccer happens to be the preferred term in most anglophone countries.
Most nations of the world refer to the beautiful game as football, or a derivative thereof. Then there’s that one nation…
Ah yes, Australia
Then there’s that one nation…
Sure, but we forgive Italy just because they love the game so much, they can have their own strange name for it if they want.
Italy has to be Italy :) And Juventus Football Club plays calcio, so while they do have their own awesome word they seem to be on team football ;)
Ah yes, Japan.
😄 Thank you. Obviously not what I was referring to, but still a point.
In Japan the most common term is sakkā, that came into use from US influence after the war. Both futtobōru and football is in use, though.
Although the official English name of the Japan Football Association uses the term “football”, the term sakkā (サッカー), derived from “soccer”, is much more commonly used than futtobōru (フットボール). The JFA’s Japanese name is Nippon Sakkā Kyōkai.
Before World War II the term in general use was shūkyū (蹴球, kick-ball), a Sino-Japanese term. With previously exclusive Japanese terms replaced by American influence after the war, sakkā became more commonplace. In recent years, many professional teams have named themselves F.C.s (football clubs), with examples being FC Tokyo and Kyoto Sanga FC.
OK, so this may shock some, but my posh English school called football ‘soccer’. Football was what most people would call rugby. Cricket was… Cricket.
posh English school
Admit it, the braying oafs in the pub called it “ruggah”
Probably. I hated all of it and still do, so I’ve no idea what they said in the pub.
Europeans: call a game where you kick ball with foot “football”
Americans: call a game where you throw ball with hands “football”
One of these makes more sense to me… :p
Europeans came up with the word “soccer” as a shortened form of “Association football” to distinguish it from the numerous other forms of football being played (rugby etc).
So, it’s your fault anyway.
NGL I kinda forgot about rugby, fair point
It was the Brits. Europe refers to a collection of countries.
Brits are Europeans, so the statement wasnt incorrect
“Europeans” is too vague. Why would you refer to Europe like it’s one country?
to get engagement
Europeans when it’s positive, individual culture subset when it’s something bad.
the uk is also a “collection of countries”.
Yes, and as far as I’m aware it’s the collection of countries that created the term Association Football. Could be wrong though.
And we’ve since corrected our mistake.
It was not Europeans. It was the British. And it was the upper class British. Specifically at the Oxford University. The people in both continental Europe and Britain always called it football.
“Soccer” is technically a slur for lower class football.
Even the British call it football now, but the soccer slur still lives on in America and other colonies.
“It wasn’t Europeans, it was this group of people from Europe.”
A small group of people from of a single country does not represent the entire population of the continent.
The sentence "Americans say ‘aloha’ instead of ‘hello’* is just as right or wrong.
Good example
“Soccer” is technically a slur for lower class football.
America: I’m not seeing the issue here.
:P
It was not Europeans. It was the British.
My brother you need to look at a map once in a while or resit your geography exams 🤣😂.
hand egg! :p
Smoking kills.
It’s always jarring to go to an otherwise gorgeous and cosmopolitan EU city and see the kind of cigarette litter the US has 30 years ago. Where I live in the US, cops actually write tickets for throwing butts on the ground, and people will yell at you for it. In Lisbon or Paris, there are entire parts of the city which just smell like an ash tray because of all the cigarette litter.
Most of us dislike it. But it’s also true that we have quite a lot of tobacco users. It’s just disgusting
The numbers are a bit worse than I thought https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/smoking-rates-by-country.
As usual, Sweden is doing well. So are a lot of African countries.
Just came back from France it’s out of control there seemingly.
Once years ago when I used to smoke, on was visiting Ghana and people were literally yelling at me for smoking in public. It’s illegal to smoke in public in a few African countries at this point IIRC.
Why wouldn’t Europeans be ready to hear that? Pretty sure we’ve been hearing it on a regular basis since the 70’s
I hear the FDA actually controls American food in a much healthier way than European even though the opposite is commonly thought.
Europeans can definitely be much louder and annoying than Americans.
Europeans can be more racist, mention muslims or Romani people.
European democracy is just as bad.
The first and the last one are simply not true, the second and third, sure, sometimes
More chemical food dyes are allowed by the EU.
Which fascist did whatever EU country vote for this term?
More chemical food dyes are allowed by the EU.
But their regulations are more strict overall. There are a lot of US foods can’t be imported without reformulating the product.
Which fascist did whatever EU country vote for this term?
Bruh, we literally just elected a fascist felon who tried to overthrow the government when he lost the last time who openly surrounded himself with fascists pushing project 2025. It’s not even a close challenge…
Cognitive dissonance at its finest
I’m not saying the US didn’t vote for one of two fascists, but the EU is as well.
People voting for fascists ≠ bad democracy.
The democracy in the USA is bad because you have a two-party system, meaning that there’s barely any choice. In the Netherlands, we have a whole bunch of political parties that share space in Parliament, so that representation is proportional to the votes.
As a result, we have both the PVV and GL-PvdA in Parliament; one is very right on most subjects, the other is pretty leftist.
European democracy is just as bad.
Have you got a particular country in mind or are you referring to EU elections?
As an European, I think the obscene amount of lobbying we allow to happen around EU institutions is something that makes “European democracy is just as bad” sound reasonable.
The politics of Italy, the UK, France, Germany, Hungary, and others all seem close to or worse than the current state of American politics. The only difference is that the US wields a lot more global influence and has no neighbors powerful enough to keep it in check (sorry Canada and Mexico, I still love you). Europe is not doing enough to prevent the spread of its own far-right/neofascist groups and the inevitable erosion of human rights.
I’m referring to the general trend in voting for far right candidates
You are badly misinformed on this point.
Which one he made 4 points
Yes
Yes.
Evidently that one
Not this one?
Definitely not that one. Are you insane!
Yes
Muslims hated us first though and some of them (that currently live here) want to destroy our civilisation in favour of their barbaric medieval religion, and their continuing growth causes me some concern about when there are enough of them around, and someone has started a sharia party, and all the imams go “you must all now vote for sharia” how many of them will follow that decree (and how many non-muslim useful idiots will too).
Not enough concern for me to start hating or discriminating against them on an individual basis, but everyone’s different and some are further down that road than I am.
I hear the FDA actually controls American food in a much healthier way than European even though the opposite is commonly thought.
What do you mean by this? Because when I look at lists of banned substances and why, or pesticide limits, the EC seems much stricter than the FDA.
I was thinking of food additives and giving animals antibiotics
Lol, Europe spanks us on both those fronts.
Where are you getting your information on that? Last time I checked there’s a whole lot of meats the EU won’t allow to be imported from the U.S., due to the additives and antibiotics used. This is particularly relevant to pork.
I don’t know enough to speak effectively to the overall point, but the banned food additive list and is only a microscopic portion of what food regulators do
Europeans can definitely be much louder and annoying than Americans.
I’m general or just in certain topics?
Brits are utter CUNTS in this way
Sincerely, a Brit
I’m particular thinking of my time in southern Spain lol
FDA
What are you smoking? We don’t even have corn syrup in our soda or chlorine in our chickens, no putrasene for chocolate, in Europe we don’t even know what tums are which seems to be a common thing to take in the US. We have chemical food dyes but just because they’re chemicals - as is everything - doesn’t mean they’re bad.
I do agree the politics are shit though.
Tums is just calcium carbonate (chalk, basically) and is essentially the same as any other rapid relief antacid tablet. Google tells me that a brand called Rennie is the same thing and is apparently available in much of Europe.
Might be more commonly taken in the US because Americans tend to eat greasy, heartburn-inducing food more often.
Might be more commonly taken in the US because Americans tend to eat greasy, heartburn-inducing food more often.
Yeah that was the implication. Our food quality just doesn’t necessitate this sort of stuff.
Might depend on the region/cuisine though and different things that set people off.
I can’t eat most Italian food without taking a Tums or some omeprazole because the tomato, olive oil, and cheeses common in those sorts of dishes just wrecks me. But spicy food I don’t struggle with much at all, so Szechuan food and Mexican food doesn’t really bother me.
The one time I tried an English style breakfast with greasy sausage and beans also had me feeling sick most of the day, and I also skipped the tomato with that one. I shudder to think of what a German currywurst might do to me.
to be fair, if youre arguing about the effectiveness of agencies like the FDA, im not sure that this is really relevant. You can make greasy, sugary, carb laden food out of the safest, purest, most well researched ingredients without any additives and it will still be an unhealthy diet. The FDA cant reasonably mandate that people have to eat their vegetables after all, at least not and actually expect people will listen to them. Im not saying that the FDA actually does do its job better or worse, I dont know that, but I feel like food quality in the sense that an agency like that can control is more a “does this stuff contain toxic ingredients” rather than “does the culture of this area like a well rounded diet”.
That soccer is boring. I’m european and love playing soccer but it’s boring to watch.
Soccer is fine. It’s the flopping which makes it unwatchable.
Bro you are a full grown fucking man in the prime of your life and you just spent the last minute rolling around on the turf screaming in agony but now you’re back at 100% for the next attack?
The game really needs a rule which requires any player who goes to the turf for longer than 10s to get a sub or serve a 60s penalty.
There’s no soccer in Europe ;)
Only futbol.
OK now this one I agree with
That’s pretty much all sports IMO
Can we get a sample of your username?
…a sample? Like, you want to whiff farts orrrr?
No, a little soundbite. What accent is it? French?
Aah, I see. Well, it varies based on what I’ve eaten. I ate maple sausage and scrambled eggs with cheddar cheese and chives for breakfast so I guess it’d be an American fart?
I’m afraid I don’t have one in the chamber though, so no farts to share.
Basketball comes to mind as a pretty good spectator sport. But I agree for Baseball and American Football at least
Well that’s just it; it’s not boring, but watching it usually is. Professional sports was a mistake.
I think that’s just sports in general. I enjoy playing almost all sportsball games. I’d sooner watch a Pong Livestream than watch 99% of sports.
Volleyball is pretty amazing to watch (and play too)
Sitting volleyball is kind of ok.
Soccer is at least barely enjoyable.
Not like those cycling races that take 5 hours with nothing happening in them.
The greatest spectator sport is curling 🥌. I’m not even joking.
Many of your economies strive cause they stolen loads of values from us.
Many of us I the US want to come there, and we’re willing to contribute, but the barriers of entry are too high. I likely won’t be able to until after retirement and that probably won’t be until I’m too old to move. And I have a lot to contribute if I could find a way to get on my feet. The US doesn’t allow for building enough wealth to start a business right out of the gate, unless you’re already born wealthy or get lucky and are willing to be exploitative, and in that case I could use a different visa to get in. Immigration isn’t all welfare cases and even with those who do need that help having a system in place to allow then to contribute while they get on their feet would benefit everyone. Dump the idea that you need to be extreme capitalists like the US and start embracing the people who need help to get started and most of them will contribute significantly as they will be so prideful of the place that took them in.
The American South equals the European East
The state of Western Australia is bigger than all of Europe.
i eat with bare hands
