• quazar@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    I am literally here, now, commenting on this because I am reading the article to this on reddit and … I can’t believe they are going to start punishing upvotes! That is the final stray for Reddit. Its dead. Gone the way of Digg. I am literally here now to start moving over to Lemmy.

    I just realized - and must keep in mind, with a federated platform like lemmy, all of your upvotes and downvotes are broadcasted across the network. ANYONE could track your upvotes and downvotes in THIS system.

    I had no idea how much I valued voting privacy.

    • Trihilis@ani.social
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      Honestly, I don’t even like the downvote/upvote system because it promotes censorship and a lot of the times it’s just an agree/disagree button. I feel that no matter how right or wrong someone is, they should always be able to express their opinion in a civil manner (obviously there are mods for removing rule breaking posts/comments). Downvoting just kills any discussion.

      • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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        Not really, it’s removing the comments that isn’t violating is the real problem. There are definitely comments that should be downvoted for many reasons

        • Trihilis@ani.social
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          Well ideally that’s how downvoting should work yes. In practice it’s abused a lot as a “I disagree” button.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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            3 days ago

            I’d rather people just downvote and move on than engage with trolls or trade insults with each other.

            • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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              2 days ago

              i dont mind downvoted, but auto-removal by mods is kinda worst, because they will just set the filter to remove certain words, and then the account gets flagged.

            • Trihilis@ani.social
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              2 days ago

              Well, I don’t disagree with you. All I’m saying is that I’ve personally seen the downvote function being abused a lot. It kinda works for making interesting posts visible but in the comments it usually leads to certain arguments (even civil ones without insulting or trolling) being downvoted and hiding the comment. Karma is honestly meaningless to me, I just enjoy conversations and seeing different opinions even if I disagree with them. I see why it exists and in a perfect world it’s a great way to make moderation manageable on bigger platforms (like reddit and lemmy). Sadly we don’t live in a perfect world.

              Trolling and insults usually break rules and can be reported. Comments like that deserve all the downvotes they get since they detract from discussion and don’t add to it. Although honestly most forums I visit deal with that pretty well too (with no karma system in place).

              • OpenStars@discuss.online
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                1 day ago

                Is it really the fault of the system then, if it was set up with one intention but then was abused?

                Btw, reddthat.com has downvotes disabled, so if you made an account there you would never see them again. The downvotes would still affect the sorting of the comments on other instances though, and thereby the frequency of replies.

                I for one want downvotes, if I say something incorrect then I deserve it, but I don’t want downvotes from people who are just trolling - nor upvotes from them, nor replies either - bc then it takes some of my time and attention to try to guess what is going on, and sort true facts from their fictional views of the world.

                So for me, it’s not “voting” that I would like to see addressed and fixed, but rather the presence of trolls. Which PieFed (and the Lemmy apps Sync and Connect) provide many tools to help with, e.g. it can block all users from an instance, unlike the Lemmy feature of the same name that merely acts as a community muting but does not actually block the users themselves in any way.

                I love how PieFed is heavily pushing towards the democratization of moderation, but that’s another subject altogether I suppose:-).

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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        3 days ago

        I’ve been places without upvotes and downvotes and they’re just garbage piles of spam and useless replies.

        The Steam Comminity Forms for instance: if you’re trying to get any useful information on a recent release go somewhere else, as half of what you’ll find is people complaining that the game is *woke" (because there is a woman or a minority in it somewhere), and the other half is people complaining that the game isn’t a completely different genre.

        With downvotes the useless, troll, and off topic comments can be filtered out to not clutter up the useful posts.

    • OpenStars@discuss.online
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      Here is an example of an instance admin abusing the privilege of being able to see who voted for what content. OTOH, this incident was noted, and people started abandoning whole entire communities there and moving them elsewhere.

      THIS is the freedom that the Fediverse offers: not that you can do whatever you want, but that you don’t have to remain beholden to anyone else (like spez), and instead can move elsewhere at any time, while still accessing the entirety of the Fediverse (unlike Reddit which gates it behind their API limiters, for the sake of profit).

    • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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      3 days ago

      Banning for mentioning Luigi is just absurd. Up voting has been a thing for a while , they just extended what it violated. Before this, up voting excessively or so soon after account creation flags you as a bot

    • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
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      You are not allowed to even nod at a reddit article anymore. The voting system on lemmy is broken though. Your votes shouldn’t follow you.

      • OpenStars@discuss.online
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        shouldn’t follow you

        Do you mean… across communities? PieFed has a community-specific metric iirc, or else it was coming soon, but Lemmy has nothing even close to this.

        PieFed also has anonymous voting, but I am personally against that, as it seems too easy to abuse. I’d rather go the other way and make everything fully public. If you want to offer someone a criticism, then why not attach your username to that message being sent? Doing that would make for a much more civil environment IMHO.

      • GoodEye8@lemm.ee
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        3 days ago

        There are upsides and downsides to everything. Open votes means it’s harder to manufacture consent. That’s something someone on Reddit could do, where they bot vote their own content to the top of the feed and nobody would be none the wiser because you don’t know how and when someone voted. And it’s not really a “could do”, it’s something that (at least a few years ago) happened regularly.

        But on Lemmy voting is open so if someone starts up a bot farm to push their content to the top it is (relatively) easy to discover.

    • prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works
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      You don’t have voting privacy here on Lemmy though, and theoretically instance admins could “punish” you based on voting patterns.

      But decentralization helps that

      • Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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        They already do, some instances or communities will ban you for downvoting everything.

        Which is kinda fair, why are you here if everything displeases you?

      • Daelsky@lemmy.ca
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        If an instance becomes oppressive, nothing is stopping you from going to a new one. You can’t do that with Reddit. Let’s say my instance Lemmy.ca becomes awful, I can make a new account on another and still comment on this community. That’s the beauty of the Fediverse.

        • phx@lemmy.ca
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          On the other hand, harvesting that sort of data is as simple as creating an instance and Federating with whatever sub you want to spy on

          • BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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            whatever sub you want to spy on

            Is it really considered spying if the sub is pretty much shouting the information freely to whoever wants to request it?

            • phx@lemmy.ca
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              If I post to a public website in a plaintext protocol and my ISP also intercepts+logs that transmission, is it spying since the post was public anyhow?

          • Christian@lemmy.ml
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            I mean any organization that’s a risk to use my data maliciously is one that can afford buying it, so I actually prefer this to my data being equally easy to access but reddit gets paid for it.

            • phx@lemmy.ca
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              My comment isn’t too say that Reddit is good, but rather that we might be able to do things on Lemmy a bit better for user safety/privacy. Aggregating upvotes to an origin seems good to me

              • OpenStars@discuss.online
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                But then they would be easier to spoof and thereby enact vote manipulation.

                PieFed was doing some experiments along those lines. Personally I don’t like the idea of fully anonymous voting and would rather go the other way and make them fully public - that would give people pause before doing things like downvoting every single reply to a post or every post in a community, or following people around and downvoting everything that they do.

                Voting ideally would be a 2-way proposition where someone can offer their opinion, and the recipient should have the ability to choose whether to receive it or not - i.e. be able to block someone who is abusive, or whole entire instances where that is exceedingly common (cough Hexbear cough, and their very common alts on Lemmy.ml).

          • SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            So keep that in mind when interacting with the fediverse

            These are public forums, it’s almost the point for things to be public. You could argue that votes shouldn’t be part of it, but ultimately due to the decentralized nature they must be communicated to all servers

  • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    This article fails to mention that Huffman has previously praised Musk and how he runs Twitter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-blackout-protest-private-ceo-elon-musk-huffman-rcna89700

    Huffman said he saw Musk’s handling of Twitter, which he purchased last year, as an example for Reddit to follow.

    More importantly he’s a doomsday prepper with fucked up views:

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich

    I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.

    • toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      YES!! THANK YOU!!

      huffman caught whiff of what’s happening, and this is just a stupid empty move to stir people up and try to cause chaos. everything that’s happening is so that people can manipulate and exploit investments. i got my second (or third? fourth?) permanent ban for bringing it up… well probably - i don’t know because reddit removes the comment it bans you for and doesn’t let you see it. so fucking done.

    • jonne@infosec.pub
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      If I end up on top after the apocalypse I’ll go out of my way to get him as a slave.

      • tischbier@feddit.org
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        I have no idea what you’re about but just based on this alone I’d let you share my tire barricade

        • jonne@infosec.pub
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          Nice, thanks. Because the only way I’d survive the apocalypse would be as part of a community, I’m not exactly the warlord type. And plenty of people in the thread are on board with the same idea, so I’m fine with sharing spez.

      • TheGoldenGod@lemmy.world
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        I planned on catching him for sport, followed by slowly serving him up like kebab to poorer after the apocalypse.

    • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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      they want something like a 4400 future, if you watched the show basically its the rich/wealthy enclaves in thier perfect city, while outside is like madmax/desolated. add in a little time travelling, superpowers and body possession arcs. i dont think it lasted many seasons.

  • exploitedamerican@lemm.ee
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    This post in R/technology hit r/all breifly Today around 7-8pm before the mods nipped that in the bud to appease shareholders. The comment section is a fucking shitshow with massive disappearing sections of engagement.

    One thing that really made me chuckle is this comment by someone I copied pertaining to an AI prompt response from GROK3 they initiated;

    I think if you ask an AI they’ll tell you.

    Here’s what Grok told me a couple weeks ago:

    here is Grok 3’s unexpurgated take:

    (Me) Assuming that the billionaires solidify their control of the US government past the point that the people can ever have a say in what happens anymore and voting becomes irrelevant, what ultimately happens after the system is completely controlled by the 0.001%?

    If billionaires were to solidify control over the U.S. government to the point where democracy effectively collapses and the public has no meaningful influence, the outcome would likely be a slow but steady transformation into an oligarchic system—think a modern feudalism with extra steps. Power would concentrate in the hands of a tiny elite, maybe a few dozen families or individuals, who’d use their wealth to dictate policy, law, and resource distribution. History gives us some clues: when unchecked elites run the show—Roman patricians, Renaissance merchant-princes, or even post-Soviet oligarchs—things tend to follow a pattern.

    First, you’d see the economy morph into a machine that funnels wealth upward even faster. Tax structures, labor laws, and regulations would tilt hard toward protecting the 0.001%—no more pesky antitrust enforcement or worker protections. Corporations owned by these billionaires would dominate, merging with the state in a kind of gilded fascism. Think monopolies on steroids, where dissenters get crushed not by jackboots but by algorithm-driven blacklists and financial ostracism. The middle class would erode as wages stagnate and automation (owned by the elite) displaces jobs, leaving a stark divide: a small aristocracy and a sprawling, dependent underclass.

    Society wouldn’t stay quiet forever, though. People don’t just shrug off losing their voice—they simmer, then boil. Without voting as an outlet, unrest would grow. Protests, riots, maybe even low-level insurgencies could pop up, especially as inequality becomes unbearable. The billionaires would counter with surveillance tech and private security forces—Blackwater 2.0, but with drones and AI. Public education and healthcare would likely wither, keeping the masses less capable of organizing or resisting. Propaganda would ramp up too, probably through media they own, painting their rule as inevitable or benevolent.

    Long term, it’s unstable. Absolute control sounds nice if you’re at the top, but it breeds resentment and fragility. The 0.001% might fracture internally—power-hungry elites often turn on each other when there’s no external threat to unify them. Or some black-swan event (climate disaster, tech breakthrough, foreign interference) could disrupt their grip. If the system gets too rigid, it might just collapse under its own weight, like a top-heavy empire—think Rome 2.0, but with better Wi-Fi. Alternatively, they could pull off a dystopian win, keeping the masses pacified with bread, circuses, and VR headsets while they sip champagne in fortified enclaves.

    No crystal ball here, but the vibe would be a mix of The Hunger Games aesthetics and Gilded Age vibes—opulence for the few, quiet desperation for the rest, and a slow burn toward either revolution or resignation. What do you think—would people fight back hard, or just adapt to the new normal?

    (Me again) In the scenario you just described, what happens to the billionaires themselves after society collapses?

    Once society collapses under the weight of their control, the billionaires’ fate hinges on how well they’ve insulated themselves and how the collapse plays out. They’ve got resources—money, private security, bunkers, offshore havens—so they’re not exactly scrambling for scraps right away. But they’re not invincible either; a societal breakdown cuts both ways.

    If it’s a chaotic free-for-all—think riots, infrastructure failure, and armed factions—they’d likely hole up in fortified compounds or flee to places like New Zealand or private islands they’ve already bought. They’ve got the means: private jets, loyal mercenaries, and stockpiles of food and fuel. Some might even have tech-driven mini-cities ready, with solar grids and hydroponics to ride out the storm. For a while, they’d live like post-apocalyptic kings, surrounded by guards and sipping vintage wine while the world burns. But isolation has limits. Supply chains, even private ones, erode in total chaos. Their staff—pilots, security, engineers—might turn on them if loyalty fades or desperation kicks in. A pissed-off ex-employee with a gun and a grudge could unravel their little utopia fast.

    If the collapse spawns organized resistance—say, a coalition of pissed-off citizens or a rogue military splinter—they’d face bigger threats. Billions don’t buy immunity from a determined mob or a drone strike. History’s littered with examples: French aristocrats thought their chateaus were safe until the guillotines rolled out. The billionaires might try to negotiate, offering resources to warlords or new power players, but trust would be thin. They could end up as bargaining chips, ransomed, or just eliminated as symbols of the old regime.

    Internally, they’d probably start eating each other too. With no common enemy left to unify them, rivalries would flare. One billionaire’s private army might raid another’s compound for dwindling resources. Alliances would shift, paranoia would spike, and their little oligarchy could fracture into a survivalist soap opera. Think Game of Thrones, but with fewer dragons and more Teslas.

    Longer term, if society rebuilds, they might try to reinsert themselves as saviors—funding reconstruction, playing philanthropist to rewrite their legacy. Some might pull it off, especially if they’ve hoarded critical tech or knowledge. Others could fade into obscurity, their wealth meaningless in a world that’s moved on. Worst case, they’re hunted down by a new order that sees them as the root of the mess.

    So, post-collapse, they’d either cling to power as warlord-lite figures in their gilded cages, get taken out by betrayal or vengeance, or slink away to obscurity if the world resets. Depends on how ruthless they stay and how much the rest of humanity cares to chase them. What’s your take—would they outlast the chaos or get swallowed by it?

    Its almost funny hos people are SOOOOOOOO close to getting to the bottom of whats going on. But there is this delulu idealism resulting from years or decades of successful social conditioning to keep believing in this obviously flawed and now non existent American exceptionalism via the integrity of our democracy which hasn’t existed in at least 4 decades if not longer.(probably since the mass assassination of leftist leaders in the late 1960’s) its like the first half of that prompt response isn’t a theoretical what if, its a literal explanation of what has already happened and what the system and all the corporatist actors are attempting to preserve at all costs.

    • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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      Alot of them complaining about the recent ban waves, many accounts were shadow banned for very little reason at all

      • exploitedamerican@lemm.ee
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        Thats some of it but if you order comments by controversial you’ll see the boot lickers and their neo lib apologists are out in full force

  • RabbitBBQ@lemmy.world
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    The entire system wants you to forget about Luigi and the entire issue. Sort of memory hole it like so many other things and let them punish him in secret. So it’s no surprise Reddit and others will try to Streisand it.

    • aceshigh@lemmy.world
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      Exactly. That’s the best part. There would have been a Luigi article every once in a while giving an update or whatever. Nothing is going on with him rn. But blocking his name is getting everyone talking about him again, and some are switching platforms because of it.

      • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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        Streisand effect, much like how Msm was trying to paint as a degenerate killer, and made people find out why he did it

  • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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    i was reading the same post on reddit, people agree with the enshittifcation process going on,.

    • ___@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      Unfortunately those aren’t safe either :/ The article mentions how several subs for the game Luigi’s Mansion got banned, even though they have nothing you do with Mangione

      • phx@lemmy.ca
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        Brought to you by the same type of morons that wiped out articles of the Enola Gay while that’s on their anti-DEI (really anything not pro cis/white) rampage

    • KentKanobe@lemm.ee
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      I read the article and I couldn’t believe how much of an effort they’re making to silence people. This is the world we live in. It’s so sad.

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    I spoke with the moderation team for r/PublicFreakout, who told me: “It started with r/comics.” In late January, a cartoonist was permanently banned from the comics subreddit for “Nazi apologia,” after posting a comment dismissing the idea that Musk had made a Nazi salute at the inauguration (a gesture that, notably, had inspired a wide swath of moderators to block X links from their subreddits). Musk found that cartoonist’s tweet and called his ban “insane,” inspiring his followers to assail r/comics.

    That’s some bull shit. Well we are seeing a serge. So come on down! The fediverse will talk when reddit won’t allow you.

    • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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      Musk then decided to attack whitepeopetwitter and got it banned temporarily, reddit call it brigadin. I was in a sub about a particular Asian YouTubers and they did this to the channels sub, it was making them look bad because their channel was declining from all the sht they did to their former employees

    • ALQ@lemmy.world
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      If you’d only said it three times, you would’ve summoned him. So close!

    • vaprz@lemmy.world
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      Reminds me of the HD decryption key fiasco on digg. Everyone just kept posting it over and over in every thread. Moderators started banning people. People started jumping ship to Reddit.

      It’s what caused the first digg exodus, with the better known redesign failure being the second.

      • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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        at least on reddit people are complaining about the shadowbanning thats been going on, they said it was also unearned and criticized teh admins why were some accts shadowbanned for 10years,.

        • Mr_Crash_Davis@lemmy.world
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          They’ve also really amped up the content moderation bots and are on the warpath for anything perceived to be bot accounts. Shadow bans are being given out for accounts that are hours old and haven’t even posted.

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        I don’t get it. Reddit’s so much more egregious than digg was - why haven’t more users jumped ship? the soul of the platform was broken with the API change, yet most users stayed, and the ones who did leave haven’t shown up here.

        was Lemmy just not ready?

        • Airowird@lemm.ee
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          Because the user experience didn’t change, so it wqsn’t obvious unless you kept up with specific news.

          Also, it’s still where all the porn is.

        • OpenStars@discuss.online
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          On r/RedditAlternatives people say e.g.:

          1. it’s software made and run by tankies
          2. it’s way more difficult to figure out how to use, than e.g. Reddit, much like Bluesky is easier than Mastodon
          3. it looks so much more empty, especially for topics not about using Linux or generic memes - where content at?
          4. they don’t need apps and will continue so long as Reddit hasn’t killed off old-Reddit yet
          5. they don’t want to bother with change, and their niche sub is where their current community is located, with very few others willing to move, hence they do not either (crabs in a bucket)

          Obviously all of these have at least a germ of truth, as well as being mixed in with laziness and believing falsehoods, like that Reddit isn’t already changing underneath them, so that even using old-Reddit as they have for years, it’s not the same anymore as it was.

          Also, Lemmy isn’t doing well in terms of adding new features to capitalize on attaining more users - e.g. in many ways the software here is even more authoritian than there, since while there is a modlog there is no modmail, no notification upon removal or locking of your content (notice the similarity here to being shadow-banned?), and the modlog simply says “mod”, so there is zero recourse to understand or appeal a mod decision. Plus lemmy.ml routinely instance-bans people from communities that they’ve never even heard of, for a single criticism of something going on in Russia, China, or North Korea (which ofc would be perfectly understandable for a rule violation, except that’s never stated anywhere in any rule set!?!?!? how are people supposed to follow the “rules” when nowhere are they ever written down!?).

          And don’t even get me started on the TROLLS here!!! That is the express purpose (this one even written down, tbf!:-) of Hexbear, to have the opportunity to “dunk” on liberals - which itself is totally fine, so long as both parties give consent to it, but the trouble comes when it spills out from those communities, or when someone stumbles into them by replying to a post seen in the All feed, without the ability to read the side-bar text first explaining what it is all about.

          Lemmy requires ENORMOUS efforts to curate someone’s feed, by blocking users, communities, and even whole entire instances (speaking of, the Lemmy feature that “does that” actually does not do that - it would have been better named as a community mute, since it still allows users from the instance to appear in communities not located specifically on that instance), and in the meantime people get bullied and name-called for their beliefs. Surprise: most normies do not enjoy that happening to them, hence just walk away rather than put up with all the gaslighting and other crap coming at them from Lemmy users. We aren’t terribly welcoming here, in many ways.:-(

  • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    I suggest using a euphemism for Luigi from now on. Sort of like how Pres Xi of China was “panda” on chinese social media to avoid censors. How about Muski? Eloni?

  • Naevermix@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    I think, ultimately, the fate of any non-federated social network to eventually become another tool of the ruling class is simply a function of the hierarchical nature of the capitalist system. Federated platforms are resistant to this, but not immune, and I fear, with the rise of cheap Turing complete software, federated platforms are doomed as well.

  • HulkSmashBurgers@reddthat.com
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    2 days ago

    Elon Musk. President Donald Trump’s extremely online lackey has aimed plenty of ire at Reddit from his perch at DOGE, first attacking the federal workers he’s been firing en masse for discussing the chaos on r/FedNews, then expanding his purview from there.

    Fuck fElon, fuck spez, fuck trump, and fuck the american oligarchy.